This is the recent interview with Nikoleseby.

What have I told you that one of the sharpest critics of centralized power, bureaucratic surveillance, and top-down social control wasn't a libertarian economist, but a French postmodernist?

And what if the economist, most vilified by the left, wasn't a cold-hearted market fundamentalist, but a thinker obsessed with

the limits of knowledge and the dangers of planning. I'm joined today by political economist Mark

Pennington to explore the surprising common ground between Michelle Foucault and Friedrich Hay.

We talk about how Foucault's critiques of expert rule, scientism, and the construction of subjectivity can bolster the classical liberal fight for freedom.

And how Hayek's warnings about the pretense of knowledge might offer a way for the left to resist

domination without defaulting to centralized authority.

If you're a libertarian who thinks Foucault is just woke nonsense, or if you're a progressive who sees Hayek as a neoliberal villain,

this conversation is going to blow your mind in the best possible way.

Here is the reason interview with Mark Pennington. Mark Pennington, thank you for talking to reason. Thank you. It's great to be here, Nick. So let's start, you know, before we get

into a discussion of your book, Foucault and and liberal political economy, the new book, which is

absolutely fascinating. And I think anybody interested in libertarian politics or in Foucault. And I think,

you know, there's you, me and about five other people that are in that intersection, but everybody

should be. But I want to read your Twitter bio and have you

explain it a little bit to me. You are a professor of political economy at King's College, London.

Okay, I understand, you know, everybody gets that. And then you say postmodern Austrian political

economists, Foucault fan, Hayek fan, classical liberal individualist.

And, you know, as somebody who's, I've been working at Reason since 1993, I went to grad school

for, you know, literary and cultural studies from 1988 to 1993.

And when I see postmodern political, political accountants Foucault,

Foucai, Fann, Hayek, van, classical liberal individualists, I just see all of the people

...