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Talking Feds

The Legacy of the Subway Vigilante

Talking Feds

Harry Litman

News, Politics, Government

4.84.5K Ratings

🗓️ 29 January 2026

⏱️ 38 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Talking Feds stalwart Elliot Williams joins Harry to discuss his new book, Five Bullets. The pair turn to the blighted and crime-stricken New York of the 1980s to get at some of the unanswered questions from the case of Bernhard Goetz and why the five shots he fired at Black teenagers which made him—to so many Americans—a folk hero. What made it so hard for prosecutors to convict Goetz? What did his trial expose about the limits of what our justice system can offer? And why the lasting American fascination with the idea of a gunman taking the law into his own hands?Mentioned in this episode: Williams' book:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/768052/five-bullets-by-elliot-williams/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

This episode is brought to you by Vanta.

0:03.0

Security and compliance done wrong is a headache.

0:06.0

Done right, you build trust and grow faster.

0:08.0

That's Vanta.

0:09.0

For startups, Vanta acts as your first security hire,

0:13.0

using AI to get you compliant fast.

0:15.0

For enterprises, it's your AI-powered hub for compliance,

0:18.0

risk and automating workflows.

0:20.0

From startups like Cursor to enterprises like Snowflake, top companies choose Vantor. Do security and compliance right. Get started today at Vantor.com. Welcome to Talking Fed's One-on-One, deep-dive discussions with national figures

0:42.3

about the most fascinating and consequential issues defining our culture and shaping our lives.

0:49.8

I'm your host, Harry Littman.

0:52.5

Today, I'll be speaking with the author of a terrific new book.

0:56.8

You know him already, Elliot Williams, a CNN legal analyst, and a longtime Talking Fed stalwart.

1:04.6

I want to say he was on the first or second Talking Fed ever many, many years ago.

1:10.4

But you don't yet know him, and nor did I,

1:13.6

in this new incarnation as an author. You know, several of my commentator colleagues have written

1:20.2

books, typically about their experiences in the law or lessons for our current straits,

1:27.2

and no knock on them. Any book is a major achievement,

1:32.5

but Elliott has turned out a book that is genuinely writerly in a word and that adds one more

1:40.4

dimension to his multi-dimensional resume. and it's a resume that already includes

1:46.3

high-ranking service in the Obama administration, as well as time as a frontline attorney

1:51.9

in the DOJ's criminal division and as chief counsel to Senator Schumer.

...

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