It's hard for me to wrap my mind around this idea that God wants everyone to be wealthy,

everyone to be healthy and things like that.

No, it doesn't say that.

We want everybody to prosper.

Being rich is more than enough to take care of what you have and enough left over to help somebody take care of themselves.

The thing that's more attractive to people about

this prosperity, health, and wealth message is those things rather than Jesus. Where do you find,

hey, this is something I enjoy versus this is something that maybe sit on the throne of my heart?

Before we get into this interview, there's a couple things that I want to tell you guys about.

Kenneth Copeland is a prosperity gospel preacher who teaches another gospel that says, God wants every Christian to be healthy, wealthy, and prosper. And if you aren't doing those things as a Christian, then it is your fault. I want to clarify, I do not agree with the prosperity gospel. It's a whole reason why we sat down. When we got the opportunity to do the first sit down interview with Kenneth Copeland in over 15 years, I made it very clear to them. I was like, hey, guys, I disagree. I'm going to be very respectful in the conversation, but I do not agree with the prosperity gospel. And so this interview is a little bit different, where I sat back and asked a lot more questions from a journalistic perspective, whereas I want to understand where he gets this doctrine from. I really don't understand. I want to know

how he finds it in scripture, what that looks like to the person and ask a lot of questions and do

more digging to let the idea speak for itself so that we can understand why the true gospel is

important. You know, I believe Paul makes a good case in 2 Corinthians that sometimes God allows

a thorn in our side to keep us humble and reliant on him.

And so it was fun to hear his perspective and challenge him even though I disagree.

And I want to be very cautious by going into this.

But also my heart was 1st Timothy 5.

Kenneth Copeland is in the latter parts of his age.

He's a little bit older.

And I tried to do my best to hold to 1 Timothy 5, which says, do not rebuke an old man, but appeal to him as a father. And so I tried to come at him with challenges as if I was challenging my father and not a harsh rebuke, quote, unquote. So I pray that as you watch this interview, you listen to it. He's going to tell a lot of

his stories. And then when we get into the prosperity part, that the questions that I ask, I pray that

they compel you in such a way to thank God for the true gospel. And not that God just wants material

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