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Chris, should we explain to newscasters how we've shaken up our entire daily routine this Monday?

We've scrapped our diaries, we've wiped them clean Monday morning.

I don't know much on otherwise.

Yeah, well, so, Kemi Badernock has been conservative leader, hasn't she, for pretty much a year. And we invited her into newscast to have a bit of a, hopefully, as in a newscasty chat, a sort of longer form chat where you can try and work out what makes someone tick. And then also, because I guess we all do this in our own lives day to day, don't we really, how you sort of learn on the job, basically, and learn from your mistakes and learn how to do things better. Because I suppose Camus Baytonox's story arc, if you want to make it a bit Hollywood, is so she won the election quite convincingly against Robert Jenrick to be Tory leader. She then very clearly said, you're not going to hear too much from me because I'm not

going to announce a load of knee-jerk policies. I'm going to have a deep think about what the

Conservative Party is for, which led to allegations that she was a bit invisible. And then the sort of

opinion research about her is that people either thought she was a bit kind of a bit grumpy, or they just didn't know anything about her at all.

Yeah.

And then we saw her shadow cabinet colleagues like Robert Jenrick getting a lot of publicity for

things they were doing on social media.

There was lots of people saying, oh, she won't survive as conservative leader.

And then she had the Conservative Party conference in Manchester this year, where the centrepiece

was her announcing that the Conservative government would abolish stamp duty on all properties.

And actually she seems to have had a sort of second wind as a result.

Yeah.

And then the undercurrent of the two of all of that is that you've had a government that's been

struggling and reform who've been making a huge amount of noise and dominating in the opinion polls.

So how do you, as the principal party of opposition, find your voice and kind of space within

that? And then even if you sort of look at it through the prism of that strategy where she said

she was going to look at policy, give lots of intense focus to that with various folk doing work for it, and then

come out with them. How do you also learn on the job in terms of getting noticed, prosecuting

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