You know, it's not lost upon me that as we've spent an entire season talking about weight,

that can bring up some pretty complicated feelings about food overall.

Not just what we eat, but how we eat and how much we enjoy it.

For our guests today, a lot of those sorts of feelings started pretty early in life.

I had this babysitter who was a chronic dieter and at that time I had no idea what a diet was, I had no idea

why somebody would want a diet.

She would eat this colorless, aromless food and she was sad all the time.

That's Dr. Linda Schu. She's an internal medicine physician who's done a lot of

thinking about food and in addition to being a big foodie she's also a chef.

She went to cooking school.

She worked at a Michelin star restaurant.

She even wrote a cookbook called Spice Box Kitchen.

Now part of the reason I wanted to talk to her is back in 2016,

she became the very first director of culinary medicine at Kaiser Permanente in San Francisco.

She runs a teaching kitchen there.

So this is a doctor who is teaching her patients

how to cook.

Part of the reason she does this is because it's easy to sing the praises of healthy food. But Dr.

Schu has found that people often feel like they have to give up a lot if they start

eating healthy. They think it's deprivation and you know loss of joy and kind of

penance even. It's colorless. It's bland. It has no texture. It has no flavor and we're not supposed to enjoy it.

And look I get that I can relate to that sometimes eating healthy frankly means

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