When you're look this passionately at the credit statistics out there you're look dispassionately at the credit statistics out there, you're seeing enormous amounts of debt relative to asset values. You're seeing structures that are very, very weak, where people are not getting appropriately protected as creditors at the top of a capital stack.

At the extremes, if I have incredibly weak covenants and I charge a really small coupon,

well then I can have no defaults.

There are a subset of opportunities available that are effectively self-liquidating.

So you can be effectively someone who benefits from the lack of liquidity, right, by having a bid when people

don't want it in that subset of situations that are self liquidating so you yourself don't need

that bit.

What is inevitable is either a crisis or a long-term malaise.

Ed Harrison here for Real Vision.

I'm talking to Dan Z Warren, who is the CEO of

Arena Investors. Dan, great to have you here for Debt Week. Thanks for having me.

I think before we came on camera I was telling you off-camera that we're having what's called debt week and you know

we're at the beginning of 2020 and the reason that we're talking about debt is

is because a lot of people don't understand that debt is actually a bigger

market than the equity market. That's right, isn't it?

Yes, the debt markets overall are far larger than the equity markets across loans and mortgages and tradable bonds and

treasuries and all the different obligations are out there there's an enormous

a number of things to choose from when you're thinking about playing the markets.

And give me a sense of the size of the comparative size of the market because when I look on television

I get the sense that it's all about stocks.

Right.

Yes, well you can imagine there are literally trillions of different opportunities out there.

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