From the New York Times, this is the interview.

I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro.

Since the founding of our democracy, there's been a separation of powers.

The Senate, in particular, was created to act as a stabilizing force with its own important responsibilities.

But after almost a year of the second Trump presidency, during which time he's pursued an

aggressive agenda, the Senate is arguably weaker than ever, with some critics and senators

saying it is abandoning its role in checking presidential power.

So today I'm having a different kind of conversation than we usually do on the show,

a roundtable about the state of the Senate with three lawmakers who all decided to leave it.

Jeff Flake, a Republican, represented Arizona and left office in 2019, warning that

the influence of Trumpism on the GOP would be corrosive to his party.

We must never regard as normal the regular and casual undermining of our democratic norms

and ideals. Joe Manchin represented West Virginia,

first as a Democrat who frequently voted with Republicans

and later as a registered independent.

He left the Senate at the start of this year.

I was not elected to take a side.

I was elected to represent all sides.

And Tina Smith is a Democrat who currently represents Minnesota,

and earlier this year announced that she won't be seeking re-election in 26.

After 20 years of hard and rewarding work in the public sector,

I'm ready to spend more time with my family.

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