The Intermediate Plateau

Draftsmen

Stan Prokopenko and Marshall Vandruff

Visual Arts, Design, Arts

4.9 • 742 Ratings

🗓️ 22 July 2025

⏱️ 66 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Stan and Marshall talk about the frustrating "intermediate plateau" a stage where artists feel stuck. They explore causes like boredom, complacency, and unclear goals, and give advice on how to push through using feedback, mentorship, passion projects, and risk-taking. SHOW LINKS (some contain affiliate links): Animal Anatomy For Artists by Joe Weatherly (Foreword by Marshall Vandruff) - https://amzn.to/4f1Fquk George Woodbridge (Mad Magazine Artist) - https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-mad-magazine-george-woodbridge-catch-22-issue.jpg Jack Davis (Mad Magazine Artist) - https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-mad-magazine-jack-davis-catch-22-issue.jpg 23 Habits for Artists - Draftsmen S1E14 - https://youtu.be/WrKyzUMERKc?si=xAt2uqF3JawxIYAm Mastery by George Leonard - https://amzn.to/4o1zxBc Marshall’s small artwork from his 30’s - https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-marshall-vandruff-drawing-small-caterpillar-framed-with-size-text.jpg https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-marshall-vandruff-drawing-small-caterpillar-full-size.jpg Rembrandt (photo by Olivier Middendorp) - https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-stan-prokopenko-pikachu-wolverine.jpg Leonardo da Vinci - https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-leonardo-da-vinci-bear-sketch-framed.jpg https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-leonardo-da-vinci-bear-sketch-full.jpg When by Daniel Pink - https://amzn.to/44HYjir Masterclass (Ron Howard) - https://www.masterclass.com/classes/ron-howard-teaches-directing Masterclass (Mira Nair) - https://www.masterclass.com/classes/mira-nair-teaches-independent-filmmaking Masterclass (Martin Scorsese) - https://www.masterclass.com/classes/martin-scorsese-teaches-filmmaking Masterclass (Margaret Atwood) - https://www.masterclass.com/classes/margaret-atwood-teaches-creative-writing Creativity by Mihaly Csikszentmihaly - https://amzn.to/45elml4 Think Like a Freak by Steven D. Levitt - https://amzn.to/3IDvElY Freakonomics by Steven D. Levitt - https://amzn.to/3Uq4YHS Kristian Nee’s youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/@KristianNeeTV Kristians Podcast with Marshall - “What Every Artist Needs to Hear (But Nobody Says)” - https://youtu.be/ptXnRU-HGxQ?si=qSKU8po6gqpU1MgJ Stan’s Anatomy Course - https://proko.com/anatomy Anatomy Course Drawings (only on screen briefly for how much work went into them) - https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-stan-prokopenko-popeye-stan.jpg Pinocchio (1940) - https://amzn.to/44RzdO0 Frankenstein by Bernie Wrightson - https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-frankenstein-by-bernie-wrightson-illustration-1.jpg https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-frankenstein-by-bernie-wrightson-illustration-2.jpg The Upside of Quitting - Freakonomics Radio - https://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-upside-of-quitting-3/ Cops TV Show (1989-present) - https://amzn.to/4mqyb1F Sexy Beast (2000) - https://amzn.to/3UtbugY Kimon Nicolaïdes - https://img-resizer.proko.com/o/media/images/stan/dm-s4e8-lesson-notes-kimon-nicolaides-gesture-sketches.jpeg Learn to Draw - www.proko.com Marshall Vandruff - www.marshallart.com Stan Prokopenko - instagram.com/stanprokopenko Kristian Nee - https://www.kristiannee.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:27.7	slash setup what does that sound you like my ball oh they're just ice balls yeah since last
0:35.5	i've combined two of my drinks into one yeah but there's nothing coming out of that... I'm shaking it up, Marshall. Oh, well, why are you holding it upside down or shaking it? The ginger was at the bottom, so I got... I don't know what you're doing. It's confusing me. Ginger and freshly juiced ginger and freshly juiced turmeric. Say it again slowly. Ginger... Turmeric. turmeric. That's it. Freshly juiced. Both juiced. Oh, freshly juiced. So it's not turmeric or powder. There's no orange juice in there? No. And then this is apple juice. This is delicious. This is like my alcohol. I make this, I put the big balls in there so that it, it's like a cocktail. Wow. Well, you've just got it all going.
1:11.5	It's so spicy.
1:12.3	Here, you try it.
1:13.4	Get a good gulp of it.
1:17.1	Lo do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do.
1:22.3	And it's the dressing show.
1:25.3	Yeah.
1:26.3	Marshall, what are we talking about today? Well, you just want to get right into the subject of the... I was getting bored. So if I'm getting bored, they're getting bored. Oh, I don't know. I wasn't getting bored at all. I was having a ball. Now... I was having too. So you showed your turmeric thing. Hey, what's that book on your... That's yours. What is that? I don't? I don't know what it is. I don't you pick it up and tell me anything about it. It says Animal Anatomy for artists. It's by Joe Weatherly and his student, Shannon, former student, Shannon Beaumont. Okay. But what else about it? There's a monkey? Keep going. Keep going Keep going Whoa
2:01.3	That's a lot of text on this page
2:03.9	2,000 words
2:04.9	And then there's text on this page too
2:06.9	Yeah
2:07.3	Oh that's a beautiful painting by Joe Weatherly
2:09.3	It's a beautiful painting by Joe
2:11.1	Oh did I skip over something important
2:12.4	Yeah no not really
	...

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