Social media's drug-like effect is on your social instincts and your social behavior,

which is not something that we are used to recognizing as a drug-like effect in changing how we think

about, right or wrong in changing how we think about our identity, that's not something that we

normally associate with that, so we don't spot it. But it is a drug, and it's one that we're taking,

I think it's like 80% of Americans are taking it an average of about a dozen times a day,

I think that's the median number. And if you're politically engaged like us, it's sometimes

several dozen, and if you're a young person and your social needs are a lot higher, it's probably

also several dozen. So we are effectively living in a world, and it sounds crazy when you put it

this way, but it is really true, where 80% of the population is taking a mood-altering behavior

altering drug, at least a dozen times a day, sometimes several dozen times a day. So,

when you know that you're like, no wonder, no wonder we're all crazy, no wonder the world is like this.

Great, I'm John Favreau, welcome to Othlin.

Hey everyone, my guest today is Max Fisher, reporter and columnist at The New York Times,

an author of the new book The Chaos Machine. If you've been listening to the show,

Max Book was written for you. He interviews many of our same guests, Renee D'Aresta,

as Recline, Dr. Vivek Murthy, and he covers just about everything we have, but with the depth

and scrutiny that can only come from years of slow, methodical reporting. The result is the

single most complete understanding of how social media has rewired our brains, our culture,

and our politics that I have ever read. It's outstanding. Max interviewed researchers,

psychologists, social media whistleblowers, and executives inside these companies to paint

an honest and incredibly damning picture of the current state of social media.

From the creation of the Facebook newsfeed to Gamergate to the election of Donald Trump,

...