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I'm Rick Wilson and this is the enemy's list. My guest today on the enemy's list is

Frank Ford, the author of the last politician inside Joe Biden's White House and in the struggle

for America's future. Folks, I want to say before we get started, I am a massive consumer of

political biographies. There are a couple thousand books filling my house. Trust me, my fiance,

we'll mention that from time to time. Probably about a third of them were political biography.

And this is in the very top tier of books about not only American presidents, but about Joe Biden.

And I've talked to and interviewed and read the Chris Whipple book, the Evan Osno's book.

And of course, probably the best description until now of Biden, his management style, his career,

his philosophy, was Richard Bin Kramer in what it takes. But I have to tell you folks, I am blown

away by this book. I think it's absolutely tremendous. And I am so delighted to welcome Frank

Ford to the enemy's list today. Frank, thank you so much for joining us today. And I am so excited

to talk through what you've learned about Joe Biden and about the lessons he's had, not only in

his career, but how his time in the White House has changed Joe Biden from the Senate Joe Biden

that we all knew as a fixture of American politics for half a century to today.

I mean, thank you for your very, very kind words and it's an honor to be here.

To get started, you talked about how Joe Biden had always sort of believed in the better angels

of people and in there and their better instincts. As president suddenly, that was challenged like

it had never been challenged before. Right. Talk a little bit about that and about sort of the

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