The Inner Worlds of Violent Offenders
Australian True Crime
Bravecasting
4.5 • 1K Ratings
🗓️ 15 January 2026
⏱️ 57 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Content warning: this conversation includes discussion of child sexual abuse. Support services can be found further down in these show notes.
Pamela Nathan is a clinical and forensic psychologist with more than 40 years’ experience working in prisons, courts and forensic hospitals, and a long history of listening to people whose crimes have shocked the public.
Pamela has recently published a book titled Pain Bleeds Crime, which takes us inside the inner worlds of violent offenders to explore how trauma, silence and past harm shape acts of extreme violence, not as excuses, but as revelations about what lies beneath the crime.
Pamela also reflects on her work in central Australia with young people through CASSE, Creating A Safe Supportive Environment, where she served as CEO for a decade and continues as a board member.
You can purchase your copy of Pain Bleeds Crime here.
For Support:
Lifeline on 13 11 14
13 YARN on 13 92 76 (24/7 crisis support phone line for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples)
1800RESPECT: 1800 737 732
Blue Knot Helpline: 1300 657 380
CREDITS:
Host: Meshel Laurie
Guest: Pamela Nathan
Executive Producer/Editor: Matthew Tankard
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Email the show at AusTrueCrimePodcast@gmail.com
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains accounts of child sexual assault. |
| 0:05.0 | Listener discretion is advised. |
| 0:08.1 | Pamela Nathan is a forensic psychologist, and she spent decades treating and assessing Australia's |
| 0:13.5 | most extreme offenders. She's written a book called Pain Bleeds Crime, in which she outlines |
| 0:19.5 | case studies of 23 patients she worked with |
| 0:22.3 | in the prison system. She joins us on Australian True Crime to talk about it. |
| 0:27.7 | This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this |
| 0:32.6 | podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Warang people of the Koolan Nation. |
| 0:39.0 | I had just graduated and, you know, I needed a job and this, during my training, I had been |
| 0:48.6 | encouraged to work in a forensic facility and I've been working in other public hospitals |
| 0:52.4 | and I categorically refused and said, |
| 0:55.1 | no, I definitely didn't want to. I was very happy where I was and so on. And then this job came up |
| 1:01.2 | and was the only job just about that was available. And so I went for the interview and at that time, |
| 1:09.1 | it was just to be in the community. During the interview, |
| 1:12.2 | it became clear that it wasn't going to be in the community. It was going to be in Pentridge. |
| 1:17.9 | That's quite a disclosure in the interview. So I remember sitting there and again, there was |
| 1:22.1 | another thud thinking, oh gosh, I bet you I get this job. Yeah. I definitely don't want it. |
| 1:28.2 | And yeah, I did get the job. |
| 1:30.7 | I mean, there are only two applicants at the time. |
| 1:33.4 | So I certainly didn't go into it wanting it. |
| 1:36.8 | And then I did a tour of Pentridge, which I remember, you know, I described in the book, |
| 1:43.1 | it was a very hot day. |
... |
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