Welcome to the waves, Slate's podcast about gender, feminism, and the wolves knocking at the door.

Every episode you get a new feminist to talk about the thing we can't get off our mind.

And today you've got me, Shaina Roth, a senior producer here at Slate.

A little girl needs to take some goodies to her grandmother.

Her mother wraps her in a red cloak, kisses her. A little girl needs to take some goodies to her grandmother.

Her mother wraps her in a red cloak, kisses her on the forehead, and sends her off into the

woods with a warning.

Make sure you stay on the trail.

She veers off the path, and then she meets a wolf. We know the rest.

My what big eyes you have, my what big ears you have. We know this story. We've heard it in so many

different iterations starting in childhood. I think about fear a lot.

I'm a true crime author in my spare time and fear sort of comes with the territory.

But it wasn't until I came across Erica Berry's new book, Wolfish, that I realized how ingrained in our

psyche's fear really is, especially for women.

We've basically been telling the story of what happens when a girl goes out alone or an old woman opens the door to a stranger for years.

And it doesn't end well. The wolf gets her.

Well, unless a nice hunts man happens to wander by.

There's a lot to unpack here. Luckily, Erica Berry is going to join me after the break.

Her new book, Wolf, Self, and the stories we tell about fear is a knockout.

So when we come back, we're going to explore the wolf as both real and a symbol,

what it means to be a predator and prey, and

how to live in this world where men and women can be both.

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