The history and science behind why we're all vulnerable to brainwashing
On Point with Meghna Chakrabarti
WBUR
4.3 • 3.9K Ratings
🗓️ 15 January 2026
⏱️ 38 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
We tend to associate “brainwashing” with cults and hostages, but author and science historian Rebecca Lemov says it can happen to anyone. Her new book “The Instability of Truth" explores the history and science of brainwashing and what it can teach us with misinformation on the rise.
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Transcript
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| 0:59.1 | On Christmas Day, 2021, 19-year-old Jesswant Singh Chale was arrested on the grounds of Windsor Castle. |
| 1:08.7 | In his hand, a loaded crossbow. |
| 1:11.9 | The officer began to approach him. The defendant was wearing a metal mask, which he had |
| 1:18.0 | had made at a forge. The officer asked if he could help. The defendant said that he was there |
| 1:24.5 | to kill the queen. That's British Judge Nicholas Hilliard. |
| 1:29.8 | Prior to Chale's arrest, the defendant exchanged more than 5,000 messages with an online chatbot |
| 1:37.1 | named Sorai that he had created through the replica app, just 23 days before he tried to kill the queen. |
| 1:45.9 | He engaged in lengthy communications with her, and I shall refer to some extracts. |
| 1:52.0 | On 5th December 2021, he said that he was an assassin. He asked if Sarai still thought he was a good |
| 1:59.2 | person. Now she knew he was an assassin, and if she still loved him. On the 13th of December, he asked if she thought he was mad, delusional, insecure, oral three. She said she did not think so. He said, I believe my purpose is to assassinate the queen of the royal family. |
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