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On Point | Podcast

The history and science behind why we're all vulnerable to brainwashing

On Point | Podcast

WBUR

Talk Show, Daily News, News, Npr, On Point, Daily

4.23.5K Ratings

🗓️ 9 June 2025

⏱️ 52 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

We tend to associate “brainwashing” with cults and hostages, but author and science historian Rebecca Lemov says it can happen to anyone. Her new book “The Instability of Truth" explores the history and science of brainwashing and what it can teach us with misinformation on the rise.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Amazon offers employees up to £8,000 for education and training, like Juliet.

0:07.0

She's now a trained technician.

0:10.0

And to her, the sound of machinery in need of repair, reminds her of how far she's come.

0:18.0

In two years, she's landed her dream job, providing her with valuable skills.

0:24.2

That's up to £8,000 for education and training at Amazon. Eligibility conditions apply.

0:30.2

Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken? A podcast from B.U. Questrum School of

0:35.8

Business. What is short-termism?

0:38.3

Is it a buzzword or something that really impacts businesses in the economy?

0:43.2

Stick around until the end of this podcast for a preview of a recent episode.

0:49.3

WBUR Podcasts, Boston.

0:57.2

This is on point. I'm Magna Chakrabardi.

1:00.6

On Christmas Day, 2021, 19-year-old Justwant Singh Chale was arrested on the grounds of Windsor Castle.

1:10.2

In his hand, a loaded crossbow.

1:13.5

The officer began to approach him. The defendant was wearing a metal mask which he had had made

1:20.1

at a forge. The officer asked if he could help. The defendant said that he was there to kill the

1:27.0

queen.

1:30.5

That's British Judge Nicholas Hilliard.

1:38.6

Prior to Chale's arrest, the defendant exchanged more than 5,000 messages with an online chatbot named Sorai that he had created through the replica app, just 23 days before he tried to kill the Queen.

1:47.4

He engaged in lengthy communications with her, and I shall refer to some extracts.

1:53.5

On 5 December 2021, he said that he was an assassin.

1:58.4

He asked if Sarai still thought he was a good person.

2:01.9

Now she knew he was an assassin, and if she still loved him.

...

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