I'm Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness Podcast.

Many men prioritize the pursuit of status, power and autonomy, which can have its advantages

in moving them towards financial security and up society's ladder.

But as my guest lays out in his book, Lonely at the Top, The High Cost of Men's Success,

a focus on work over relationships can also come with significant, even tragic costs.

His name is Thomas Joyner, he's a clinical psychologist, professor of psychology, and

an investigator with the Military Suicide Research Consortium.

Thomas and I begin our conversation with his work around suicide, why men are more likely

to die by suicide at a rate four times higher than women, and how loneliness is a primary

factor in what drives men to take their own lives.

From there, we talk about the problem of male loneliness in general, and how it can begin

in a man's 30s and get worse as he advances through middle age.

We impact the difference between subjective and objective loneliness, and how you can

feel alone in a crowd, as well as be something Thomas calls alone but oblivious.

We discuss how everyone is quote unquote spoiled by relationships in their youth, and why

men struggle more than women to learn to take the initiative in this regard later in

life.

We enter discussion with why therapy isn't the right solution for many men who struggle

with depression and loneliness, and how equally effective solutions can be found in simply

making more of an effort to balance a focus on work and family, with socializing and

reaching out to others, and particularly Thomas argues, and reconnecting with your friends

from high school and college.

...