The Hidden Tax of Avoiding Tough Conversations, with Harvard Law Senior Fellow Bob Bordone

Afford Anything

Paula Pant | Cumulus Podcast Network

Entrepreneurship, Business, Investing

4.6 • 3.4K Ratings

🗓️ 18 March 2025

⏱️ 111 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

#591: Imagine you're about to ask your boss for a raise. Your stomach tightens. You've rehearsed what to say, but doubt creeps in. Should you be more assertive? More understanding of company constraints? Bob Bordone, who has taught negotiation for 25 years including 21 years at Harvard Law School, joins us to explain why you don't have to choose between empathy and assertiveness. In fact, combining them is key to successful negotiations. "It might feel like a tension, but it's not an actual one," Bordone explains. "I can fully appreciate what you're feeling without ever giving anything up in a negotiation." Bordone breaks down his three-part preparation framework: Mirror work: Identify the different sides of yourself in a negotiation — the empathic side that understands company constraints, the assertive side that knows you deserve recognition, and perhaps an anxious side worried about finances. Chair work: Give each side a voice through role-playing exercises, literally sitting in different chairs to embody each perspective. Table work: Bring these voices into the actual negotiation in an authentic way that doesn't make the other person feel attacked. He also introduces fascinating concepts like "conflict recognition" — how quickly we perceive something as a conflict — and "conflict holding" — our comfort with leaving conflicts unresolved. These differences often cause relationship problems when we're unaware of them. "My best friend and I might debate over Flaming Hot Cheetos for 25 minutes. For me, with high conflict recognition, it's completely fun. I go home and sleep like a baby," Bordone says. "For someone with low conflict recognition, they might think, 'That was horrible. Did I hurt the relationship?'" When someone tries to shut down your request with policy ("that's just how we do things here"), Bordone recommends what he calls the "Wizard of Oz tactic" — asking a few more questions rather than immediately accepting defeat. The skills you develop asking for a raise transfer to other challenging conversations — from family inheritance discussions to political disagreements with colleagues. Bordone emphasizes that conflict isn't something to avoid but rather a normal part of relationships. The question isn't whether we'll have conflict, but how we handle it when it inevitably arrives. Resources Mentioned Book: Conflict Resilience Web: BobBordone.com Timestamps: Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times. The provided timestamps are approximate and may be several minutes off due to changing ad lengths. (00:00) Introduction to Bob Bordone (02:35) Contentious times vs 25 years ago (04:26) Negotiation vs facilitation vs conflict resolution (05:56) Key negotiator skills (08:35) Empathy meets assertiveness (11:22) Mirror work explained (15:58) Chair work technique (19:58) Table work strategies (24:10) Role-playing in preparation (31:44) Rights, power, interests framework (35:39) Conflict recognition vs conflict holding (42:22) Handling power imbalances (50:13) "Difficult people" reconsidered For more information, visit the show notes at https://affordanything.com/podcast/binge Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Today's episode is about the art of making your boss want to give you a raise.
0:06.7	Our guest today is Bob Bordone, one of the world's leading experts in negotiation and conflict
0:11.6	resolution. Bob taught at Harvard Law School for more than 20 years as a clinical professor
0:16.4	of law. While there, he founded the Harvard Negotiation and Mediation Clinical Program before going
0:22.4	on to launch his own consulting practice. Currently, Bob's a senior fellow at Harvard Law School,
0:27.9	the founder of the Cambridge Negotiation Institute, and an adjunct professor at Georgetown
0:32.4	University Law Center. In today's conversation, Bob shares practical techniques that you can use immediately,
0:40.4	whether you're asking for a raise, resolving conflict inside your family, or dealing with
0:46.4	tough coworkers. You'll learn his three-part preparation framework. You'll understand the difference
0:52.3	between conflict recognition and conflict holding,
0:54.8	and you're going to understand why empathy and assertiveness are not at odds with one another.
1:00.4	Welcome to the Afford Anything podcast, the show that understands you can afford anything,
1:04.2	but not everything. Every choice carries a tradeoff, and that applies to your time, money,
1:08.6	focus, and energy. This show covers five pillars,
1:11.1	financial psychology, increasing your income, investing, real estate, and entrepreneurship.
1:15.2	Double I fire. And today's episode focuses on that first letter I, increasing your income.
1:21.7	Specifically, as we deep dive with one of the world's leading negotiation experts on how you can get a raise.
1:29.8	Bob has written multiple books on negotiation and his latest book, Conflict Resilience, is
1:35.5	fascinating. He co-authored it with a neurologist. With Bob's expertise, he talks about the
1:42.8	psychology and tactics of negotiation and conflict resolution.
1:47.3	And then from his co-author's point of view, he talks about the neurology of negotiation.
1:53.2	And so this week, we're doing something very special.
	...

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