I'm Mario Glass. On This American Life, we tell real life stories, really good ones.

My mother said, I'm sorry that you weren't here because Father Sager was here visiting,

and he found a very nice orphanage for you. And I said, but I'm not an orphan.

Surprising stories.

In your podcast feed, this American Live.

Ever wanted to come to a live show of the NPR Politics Podcast?

I'm Tamara Keith here.

And this fall, we're turning 10 years old.

Join us Thursday, October 30th for the NPR Politics Podcast Live Show. Celebrate with us in D.C. at NPR

headquarters. You can find information on tickets and more at npr.org slash politics live show.

This is Mark Borges from Modesto, California. I'm currently in Sweden and halfway through a European backpacking

trip that I started after finishing my master's. This podcast was recorded at

1.13 p.m. on Tuesday, October 21st, 2025. Things may have changed by the time you hear this,

but I'll still be exploring Scandinavia's pristine wilderness. All right, here's the show.

You have so many podcast listeners who are like global, fun, trekking traveler people.

That sounds really nice. Can I explore the wilderness with you?

How do we get out there, too? Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Dupa Shivaram. I cover the White House. I'm Barbara Sprint coming from the wilderness of Capitol Hill. And NPR health policy correspondent, Selena Simmons-Duffin, is here with us today. Hey, Selena. Hi, Deepa. Okay, so today on the show, we are on day 21 of the federal government shutdown, and we're digging into the health care issue at the center of the fight over reopening the government. So Barbara, you're in

the wilderness of Capitol Hill. How is health policy fueling this shutdown fight where you are?

Well, let's start with the politics of this. If we can all cast our minds back to March of this year, which feels like forever ago, actually wasn't that long ago, you'll remember that's when Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer provided a key Democratic vote that Republicans needed to advance a spending bill. Deja vu, kind of. And I was with House Democrats at a retreat at that time, and there was so much outrage.

You know, Senate Democrats, a majority of House Democrats, really wanted to use that shutdown

possibility as leverage, you know, arguing it's one of the few opportunities that they have as a

party in the minority. This time around, Senate and House Democrats have been unified in not

...