Welcome back to The Breakdown with me, NLW.

It's a daily podcast on macro, Bitcoin, and the big picture power shifts remaking our world.

What's going on, guys? Today on The Breakdown, we are talking to Ian Rogers, the chief experience

officer at Ledger. Before we get into that, however, if you are enjoying the breakdown, please

go subscribe to it, give it a rating, give it a review, or if you want to dive deeper into

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All right, friends, back with another interview this week while I am traveling for my wife and mother-in-law's birthday.

And today's conversation is with Ian Rogers from Ledger.

Ian is one of those folks who brings a really interesting and diverse background that's

not just straight technology or finance to the crypto space.

And because of that, I think, has a really interesting perspective.

In this conversation, we talk a lot about what's changed and what hasn't in the context of the new cycle.

Ian has a really interesting and simple argument about what the hallmark of this cycle will be

that I think you're going to enjoy hearing about.

We also talk about the state of self-custody in the wake of a Bitcoin ETF, so all in all, great conversation, can't wait for you to hear it.

All right, Ian, welcome to The Breakdown. How are you doing, sir? I am great, thank you. Happy to be

talking to you. I feel like I'm supposed to say a long-time listener, first-time caller. No, I'm, I'm super excited. I think, I think there's a,

there's a lot to talk about. We're at this, um, this really, really fun from a like a big think,

big talky kind of perspective, at least, a part of the cycle where it's so clearly, you know,

into something new versus the end of something old. But the stuff that was old is still pretty

fresh and we're still a lot of what's going to be new is up for grabs. And that's a really

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