This is The New Yorker Radio Hour, a co-production of WNYC Studios and The New Yorker.

Welcome to The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick.

Last week, Donald Trump launched a war against Iran.

And in the days that followed, the administration's rationale has shifted on a nearly daily

basis. Talking with one reporter after another, the president and its advisors as well

seem to road test ideas and potential outcomes in public, frequently contradicting one another.

The administration seems to want things both ways or all ways.

Pete Heggseth scoffs at nation building, calling that concept dumb.

No more endless wars, he says.

And yet Donald Trump apparently wants regime change, an entirely new government in Iran, and he won't rule

out boots on the ground. J.D. Vance says Trump won't allow a long war, while Trump himself muses

that we have enough weapons to fight forever. There's a very familiar and ominous ring to all of this.

To understand where this war may lead, for Iran, for the Middle East, and for the United States,

I called on two of my colleagues with decades of experience covering the region.

Dexter Filkins has reported from all over the Middle East and much of the world,

and his best-selling book, The Forever War,

is a defining history of our

campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan. Robin Wright has reported from Iran extensively over the years,

and she even met with Ali Khomeini before he became the supreme leader of Iran.

Rock the Kasbah is Robin's book about the Arab Spring. After the war began,

I spoke with Robin Wright and Dexter Filkins.

Well, here we are five days into this war. And last week, I had on the program, somebody you both know, Karim Sadatpur, who is an Iran

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