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Welcome to the waves for Thursday, December 13th, the gentle, sexy gift edition.

I'm Hannah Rosen, a host of NPR's Invisibilia.

And in the New York studios today, we have June Thomas, senior managing producer of the Slate Podcast Network. Hi, June. Hey, Hannah. Back from Australia. Back and talking to you after two hours sleep. I'm going to be such a great show. I know, but June after two hours, that's great. June after two hours sleep is like the best kind of thing. Like wacky. Who knows what we'll get. And the person you hear laughing, laughing in the background, is Molly Fisher from The Cut on Tuesdays, which is such a fabulous new feminist show. Hi, Molly.

Hello. And thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. Yes, I love your show. We shouldn should call it a feminist show or should we call it a feminist show? It's like the cut is so good. So now what like how do you, how do you think about your show? I certainly think of it as a feminist show, but I do think that like one thing we talk about, I have talked about a lot of the cut is sort of wanting to do it without saying we're doing it, whether it means being inclusive, whether it means being feminist, whether it means being diverse, whatever, like rather than kind of harping on the fact of the label as a point of pride just to simply enact what we think it means and convey that to our readers, our audience, whatever, without, you know, attaching a lot of

baggage to it. You know, that's sort of the ethos, I would say. But it's a feminist show.

That is so good to hear because when we were starting double X, right, it was the same thing where I

could never quite put my words on it. Like, nothing ever felt quite right as a description,

but I totally understood what I wanted and I totally could feel my way through it, but I could never, all the words just kind of lead you down a weird path, you know? Yeah. Well, and I don't think it's a... Of course, it's a feminist show, but it's not about feminism. Like, feminism is a political movement. Sometimes it's about feminism, but that's not exactly all that it is, you know. Yeah. Well, we got a really, really kind write-up from Amanda Hess, Slate Alam in the Times recently. And she said, I think, that it was influenced by feminism or informed by feminism, but not wedded to ideology or dogma. And I felt like that was a nice summary of what we try to do and how we try to think about what we do.

Okay, good.

We'll land it at that.

And Noreen will be back next week, but we are so glad to have you here today, Molly, because sexy topics.

That was weird.

Anyway, okay, so our topics for today.

First, the Victoria's Secret Brand is in trouble.

Is that because its version of fantasy has no place in the world anymore?

Second, Tumblr, which embodies a whole other take on female sexuality, also in

trouble for banning porn on the site in all the wrong ways.

Or banning nudity.

It's not porn, exactly, but we'll get into it.

And finally, we're going to talk about multi-level marketing, the updated social media-era version of the Tupperware lady.

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