Hello and welcome to more or less on the BBC World Service.

We are your weekly guide to the numbers all around us in the news and in life.

And I'm Tim Haafard.

This week I'll be talking to Stacey Vanneck-Smith about her research

on the gender pay gap in the US and the UK.

I'm a reporter for National Public Radio in the US

and I report and host for a show called Planet Money Indicator,

which is a daily business and economic show.

And I'm also author of the new book Machiavelli for Women,

which is about women and work and pay and hopefully how some of the situations

women have been in for a long time can get better.

She's taken inspiration from the Renaissance writer Machiavelli,

who's probably most famous for writing the prints.

They're sort of handbook for royals on how to cunningly get you away.

The thing about Machiavelli, so when he writes the prints,

the prints is kind of a guide in a certain way for power,

for how to take power and grow your power.

But he lays out in the very, very beginning that there are two kinds of

princes that there's the inheriting prince.

And for the inheriting prince, things are pretty cushy.

You know, he inherited the kingdom from his dad and everyone's pretty,

you know, used to having him around.

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