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Foreign Policy Live

The Future of Europe’s Defense

Foreign Policy Live

Foreign Policy

Politics, News Commentary, News

4601 Ratings

🗓️ 15 August 2025

⏱️ 33 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

European leaders, having agreed to spending 5 percent of their GDP on defense, now must decide where that money goes. What factors should they consider to make sure the money leads to the continent’s growth and a cutting-edge defense industrial base? Ravi Agrawal sits down with Jared Cohen, the president of global affairs at Goldman Sachs, to discuss. Note: This discussion is part of a series of episodes brought to you by the Goldman Sachs Global Institute. Ravi’s Recommendations: Amitav Acharya: Pharaohs, Maharajas, and the Making of a Multipolar World Robert Kagan: The Jungle Grows Back: America and Our Imperiled World Additional Reading: Ravi Agrawal: NATO Is Avoiding a Difficult Conversation Jared Cohen: Don’t Bet Against the Dollar Justin Logan: Trump Shouldn’t Settle for European Spending Pledges Kori Schake: Is NATO Dead? Matthew Kroenig: A Division of Labor Between Europe and Asia Won’t Work Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi, I'm Ravi Agrawal, Foreign Policies Editor-in-Chief. This is FP Live.

0:09.0

The Trump-Putin summit is like a geopolitical blockbuster movie. It's where all the attention is. The TV ratings will go through the roof.

0:18.4

But I'm pretty sure that in a week or so, the focus will be on what

0:22.3

Ukraine thinks and also how Europe backs it. Today, I've got a guest who's been gaming out a very

0:29.7

big question, how Europe should use all the money it's allocating towards defense.

0:36.6

But just one thing before we get to all of that. This one's a book

0:40.1

recommendation. I just finished reading Amitav Acharya's The Once and Future World Order. It's

0:47.0

quite provocative and if you can't find the time to read it, we'll link to an excerpt FP recently ran

0:53.1

from it.

0:56.8

Acharya teaches at American University,

1:00.5

and he makes a claim from the heart of Washington, D.C., that runs counter to conventional wisdom in America.

1:04.3

He says that everyone seems scared,

1:07.0

that if America retreats from its global role,

1:10.3

the world will enter a period of complete chaos,

1:13.7

that the last 80 years of relative peace and stability will disappear.

1:18.5

And he says, no.

1:20.8

He makes the point that while change is turbulent, global history actually shows that you don't

1:26.9

need one superpower to run the world,

1:29.3

that multipolarity and a confluence of different systems is in fact possible.

1:35.3

And he presents a stunning range of research going back millennia to Babylon, to ancient Greece and the Romans, and much more.

1:43.3

Mutual non-aggression, for example, is a principle that comes from ancient Egypt in a peace treaty

1:50.1

with Hatti.

...

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