This is the Hidden Killers podcast with Tony Brewski and continuing coverage of the case against Karen Reid.

Today we are unpacking what might be one of the most psychologically loaded moments in the Karen Reid trial so far.

We're actually going to go after a lot of moments, but we're going to start out with Jennifer McCabe's raw emotional testimony

about the morning John O'Keefe's body was found. McCabe breaks down in court recalling how Karen

allegedly screamed, there he is before anyone should have known where he was, and started asking,

did I hit him before there was any confirmation that he was even dead

or in the snow or in any place where Karen could have hit him? Add that to the chaotic

borderline panicked early morning calls, the physical reaction at the scene, and you've got a cocktail

of possible trauma, guilt, or something far more complex.

So joining us today to sort through all of that from a psychological perspective is psychotherapist

and a true crime mind reader in chief.

So somewhat, you know.

Chavon Scott, Chavon, when someone starts asking, did I hit him before anything's even out there?

Before we even know he's in the snow dead.

He could be sleeping on someone's couch.

He could be, as Karen feared, he's sleeping with someone else. He could be in someone

else's bed. He could be anywhere. What does it tell you about Karen Reed in this case initially

before anything else happens, thinking that John is dead and could she have hit him? What does that say? The timeline's important here.

Yeah, you know, she had had several hours to ponder. Where is John? And we know that she was doing that

with her frantic phone calls, the angry phone calls, and accusing him of being with another woman

and that emotional roller coaster

she was on. So could it have been that her mind just took her to that as a possibility?

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