The world of work is changing rapidly.

Security and stability are far from the norm.

So with that in mind, I'm re-releasing this episode with Helen Tupper, who co-hosts the

Squiggly Careers podcast and who's also written two best-selling books about navigating the modern career landscape.

In this episode, Helen outlines the five key skills she's identified that people need to be

able to thrive in a squiggly career. So I began by asking Helen what exactly is a squiggly career.

So I guess it's more of a concept than anything else really.

It's the idea that careers are full of change and uncertainty and opportunity and possibility

at the same time.

And the squigglyness means that we can develop in different directions. There's no one size fits all version of success.

You know, your squiggle is as individual as you are and so is mine.

And that's fine.

And I guess it is the opposite of the idea of the career ladder or the staircase.

Because that is predictable, linear, there's a good path to take and there's a

right way to do it and there's one destination on the ladder which is to progressively get more senior

and that's stuck around for a really really long time and squiggly is the antithesis of that and we believe

that if we can start to embrace squiggly careers as the new normal,

more people can succeed at work in a way that's reflective of what they want from work,

not what other people think they should do or what was right a long time ago.

I watched your TED talk with your business partner, Sarah, which I thought was very good, by the way.

And Sarah came out with a really interesting view of the career ladder, explaining that it was

this concept that was conceived of in the early 1900s and it's still hanging around today

...