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Today, we are releasing the audio from an Instagram live conversation that we had with

Lori Adams Brown earlier this week.

As the Southern Baptist Convention gathered for their annual meeting, there was one name

at the forefront fighting for women to have the ability to be in pastoral roles within churches

affiliated with the convention. Rick Warren, former lead pastor and founder of Saddleback Church, was surprisingly the face of this movement.

You may remember that a few months ago we had Lori and her husband Jason on to tell their story of abuse at the hands of the current Saddleback pastor, Andy Wood.

Rick is aware of the allegations and is complicit in not calling for a credible investigation.

What do we do with this? What does it mean when someone like Rick is the face of the fight

for women to be allowed to pastor? But the women in ministry in his circles have been effectively

run over by the buses of powerful men.

Today, we dig deeper into these questions and more.

I'm Johnah Harris, and this is at the bus stop by the Bodies Behind the Bus podcast.

Thank you. Just a little bit of background about me, for those of you who don't know, I was Southern Baptist pretty much my whole life over 45 years.

And not just that, like an MK missionary kid of Southern

Baptist missionary parents raised in Venezuela. I went to, I was recruited out of Venezuela to go

to a Southern Baptist University on a leadership, a full leadership scholarship. So I studied

at a Southern Baptist University, did like, you know, summer missions throughout my career

...