On a cold day in early February of this year, thousands of trade unionists gathered together in Brussels

under banners from all across Europe, packing out a square near enough to the major EU institutions

for the speeches and music to carry over from the heavy amps.

They had come as workforce representatives of the continent's many industrial sectors,

from the steel automotive and chemical industries to shipbuilding and textiles.

And they had come with a clear message.

Invest now or deindustrialize.

With me today are Ludovic Vuert, Confederal Secretary at the European Trade Union Confederation,

and Judith Curtin Darling, General Secretary of the Industrial Workers Federation, Industrial Europe.

To talk about the meaning behind that warning, about the EU's recently presented clean industrial deal,

and about what industrial policy

looks like or should look like in Europe today. I'm your host, Bethany Staunton, and you're

listening to ETIP Podcast, Voices on the World of Work. Judith and Ludovic, thanks for coming on to ETIP podcast.

Thanks so much for having us.

A pleasure to be with you.

Judith, industrial Europe has spoken of there being an industry crisis today in Europe.

What leads you to say this?

So for us, it is really an industrial crisis, or I should say it's a crisis for industrial workers in Europe.

And it stems from multiple different events and trends, all colliding in a kind of perfect storm,

which is hitting industrial workers at the moment.

It's a combination of the cost of living crisis, the impact, the decline of demand in Europe,

which is linked to domestic policies and aggravated or inflamed by fiscal consolidation

...