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Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College, all things Hillsdale at Hillsdale.

I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there. And, of course, I'll listen to the Hillsdale College. All things Hillsdale at Hillsdale.edu. I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there.

And, of course, I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogues, all of them at Hugh for Hillsdale.com or just Google Apple, iTunes, and Hillsdale.

Morning, glory, and even grace, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt, joined by the one and only Ben Dominant. She is host of the Big Ben podcast. He's editor at large at The Spectator. Of course, he's a Fox News contributor. And Ben, welcome. I'm going to go in reverse order of the Big Ben podcast this week. Because I found your conversation with Charles Murray to be fabulous. And it reminded me of until he died, Hitch was about a

weekly guest on the Hugh Hewitt show, and sometimes we did three-hour shows after he did.

God is not great.

Did a three-hour show with Dr. Mark Roberts, a very accomplished theologian, great interview, three-hour program,

did a two-hour program with David Allen White from the Catholic perspective.

I love talking about that stuff because I think it's pretty easy.

Apologetics is pretty easy to do.

Were you surprised by Charles Murray's decision to write a book about it at what, 80, 81?

I have to be quite, I did not have this on my bingo card here.

I mean, I just did, I did not expect that.

One thing I will say is that, you know, I've interviewed Charles a lot.

I think I'm trying to remember, I probably interviewed him for the first time,

probably around 2010. And, you know, he's obviously someone who has been, you know, a titan

of kind of the intellectual, right, a not uncontroversial one, obviously, but also someone who I

...