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The Michael Shermer Show

The Faith Deficit: Does America Need a Spiritual Backbone?

The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer

Dialogue, Science, Reason, Michaelshermer, Natural Sciences, Skeptic

4.4921 Ratings

🗓️ 4 February 2025

⏱️ 90 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What happens to American democracy if Christianity is no longer able, or no longer willing, to perform the functions on which our constitutional order depends? Jonathan Rauch—a lifelong atheist—reckons candidly with both the shortcomings of secularism and the corrosion of Christianity.

Thin Christianity, as Rauch calls the mainline church, has been unable to inspire and retain believers. Worse, a Church of Fear has distorted white evangelicalism in ways that violate the tenets of both Jesus and James Madison. What to do? For answers, Rauch looks to a new generation of religious thinkers, as well as to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has placed the Constitution at the heart of its spiritual teachings.

In this timely critique Rauch addresses secular Americans who think Christianity can be abandoned, and Christian Americans who blame secular culture for their grievances. The two must work together, he argues, to confront our present crisis. He calls on Christians to recommit to the teachings of their faith that align with Madison, not MAGA, and to understand that liberal democracy, far from being oppressive, is uniquely protective of religious freedom. At the same time, he calls on secular liberals to understand that healthy religious institutions are crucial to the survival of the liberal state.

Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow in the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution in Washington DC and a contributing writer of The Atlantic. His new book is Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy.

Transcript

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0:00.0

You're listening to The Michael Shermer Show.

0:16.6

Here's the new book, Cross Purposes. Christianity's broken bargain with democracy.

0:22.3

Okay, I have to tell you, well, first of all, it's a great book.

0:25.7

All your writings are so good.

0:26.8

And thank you for writing a slim book.

0:28.3

Thank God.

0:29.2

It seems to be the trend.

0:31.1

I'm never again going to write a 500-page book.

0:34.1

It seems to be the way anymore.

0:35.6

It wasn't my fault. The publisher says this is

0:37.7

going to be in a series and I couldn't go over 40,000 words. So I came in at 40,000 before the

0:45.8

bibliographical note. I see. I said, right. Trimmed it down. One of my techniques is,

0:52.1

when I hate giving it something up, is just tell myself,

0:55.4

I will use that in the next book. And then I'm like, okay, so go ahead and cut it. You don't

0:59.8

feel like you're throwing it away. But, okay, so Jonathan, you're one of my favorite atheist writers.

1:05.8

Here you are writing a book, in essence, defending religion in general and Christianity in particular.

1:12.5

What happened to you? Or to religion or to the society or whatever?

1:17.8

So I like, maybe like you, I'm a lifelong atheist. I tried to believe at one point in my

1:24.2

adolescence. And I'm just not wired that way. And religion, you know,

1:28.4

the idea of supernatural beings and people that are shaped like a big daddy in the sky, which

1:33.6

performs miracles and organizes this entire vast, vast cosmos around the needs of one tiny little

1:40.9

primate species, it just never made any sense to me. And I'm particularly eager to be on this show because I am trying to talk to my own former self.

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