The EU-China Relationship in the Age of Trumpian Disruption, with Finbarr Bermingham of the SCMP

Sinica Podcast

Kaiser Kuo

Culture, China News, Hangzhou, Chinese, International Relations, Chongqing, Beijing, Sichuan, Currentaffairs, China, Politics, Chengdu, Shanghai, Guangzhou, China Economy, News, China Politics, Business, Film, Shenzhen

4.8 • 676 Ratings

🗓️ 29 April 2025

⏱️ 67 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week on Sinica, I chat with SCMP Senior Europe Correspondent Finbarr Bermingham, who joins from Brussels where he's been covering the EU-China relationship in fantastic depth and with great insight.

3:17 – EU-China relations in early 2025: the effect of the 2021 sanctions, who advocated for engagement versus confrontation with China, and the importance of the Comprehensive Agreement on Investment (CAI)

13:49 – How Brussels initially reacted to the rupture in the transatlantic alliance

17:14 – China’s so-called charm offensive

21:03 – The idea of de-risking from Washington

23:10 – The impact of the Oval Office meeting with Zelensky

24:55 – Europe’s dual-track approach with China and shift toward pragmatism

29:35 – National interests versus EU unity regarding Chinese investment, and whether Brussels could extract concessions

35:20 – Brussels’ worry over Trump cutting a deal with China

38:06 – Possible signs of China’s flexibility on different issues

40:25 – The lifting of the sanctions on European parliamentarians

42:21 – The decrease in calls for values-based diplomacy, and whether securitization is happening in Europe

47:05 – How the EU might address tensions over China’s industrial overcapacity

50:17 – The possible future of EU-China relations, and whether the transatlantic relationship could go back to normal

55:50 – The knee-jerk element of looking past Europe

Paying It Forward: Ji Siqi at SCMP, Cissy Zhou at Nikkei, and Kinling Lo and Viola Zhou at Rest of World

Recommendations:

Finbarr: The Stakeknife podcast series; Say Nothing: A True Story of Murder and Memory in Northern Ireland by Patrick Radden Keefe; and the 20th anniversary edition of Wilco’s album, A Ghost Is Born

Kaiser: The Ottomans: Khans, Caesars, and Caliphs by Marc David Baer

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to the Cynica podcast, a weekly discussion of current affairs in China.
0:13.1	In this program, we'll look at books, ideas, new research, intellectual currents, and cultural trends
0:18.1	that can help us better understand what's happening in China's politics, foreign relations, economics, and society. Join me each week for in-depth conversations
0:26.7	that shed more light and bring less heat to how we think and talk about China. I'm Kaiser Guo
0:32.5	coming to you from my home in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Cynica is supported this year by the
0:37.4	Center for East Asian Studies at the University of
0:39.5	Wisconsin-Madison, a National Resource Center for the Study of East Asia.
0:44.4	The Cynica podcast is and will remain free.
0:47.6	But if you work for an organization that believes in what I'm doing with the podcast, please
0:51.5	consider lending your support.
0:53.4	You can get me at Cinecapod at gmail.com. And podcast, please consider lending your support. You can get me at
0:54.2	Cynicapod at gmail.com. And listeners, please support my work at www.cinnacopodcast.com.
1:01.9	Become a subscriber and enjoy, in addition to the podcast, the complete transcript of the show,
1:07.2	essays from me as well as writings and podcasts from some of your favorite China-focused
1:11.2	columnists and commentators now far too many to list. But do check out the page and see what is on
1:18.1	offer and consider helping me out. One of the more interesting aspects, I believe, of the Trump
1:23.5	administration's nearly simultaneous geostrategic and geo-economic disruptions is how they are
1:30.1	really reshaping the relationship between China and the EU, both of which have been on the,
1:35.7	well, the pointy end, the receiving end of the administration's capricious hostility.
1:40.3	One of the most diligent chroniclers of these changes, observing how things have unfolded and
1:45.7	writing about it prolifically for the newspaper for which she works, is Finbar Birmingham,
1:50.1	European correspondent for the South China Morning Post. It's been fascinating to read his
	...

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