In this edition of the bottom line, we're talking about ethics and profits and B-Corps, the latest model to reconcile the two.

Hello and welcome to the programme. Profits versus ethics.

Business has been playing with the relationship between the two for centuries,

from philanthropic Victorian industrialists such as Cadbury Brothers,

Joseph Roundtree and Lord Lever, of Unilever, to the more recent phenomenon of fair trade and corporate

social responsibility. In each of these cases, the idea is that profits are not everything, other

broader social goals are pursued as well. And in fact, hopefully profits may benefit anyway.

Well, there is a degree of cynicism about how ethical. Some ethical businesses are.

But there is now a new kid on the block. It's the B-Corp or Benefit Corporation.

That's basically a certificate for a company taking a holistic view of

its social responsibilities. You could think of it as like organic food, except its business ethics.

So this week, we're asking specifically, does the B-Corp model offer something really new?

And more generally, what does ethical business entail? And I have three guests who are experts in the field. And let me first

introduce Katie Hill, who's executive director of B-Lab UK. And Katie, you can assume the audience

know nothing about B-Lab. What is it? Be-Lab is the charity that is rolling out the B-Corp

movement here in the UK. So it's a not-for-profit, as are all B-Labs across the world. And we're here to introduce the B-Corp movement, which was started in the States and is now in many other countries across the world to the UK. And we have been here two years. So you would be the equivalent of the Soil Association if you take the organic model.

The B-Corp, where does it start? Give us the history. Yes. I mean, the B-Corp actually started

from three founders who ran a company called And One in the States with all kinds of wonderful

focus on the social and environmental impact of their business. When they came to sell it, 13 years after they'd founded it, they realised within three months

there was almost nothing left of the thing that they had really built.

All these values had just disappeared.

So that got them to think about how do we build businesses that have got a real resilience

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