Hey, everybody, Tim O'Hour from the Bullwark here.

I was on with Katie Turrey yesterday. We got into something a little serious, little heavy for daytime cable TV. And I want to expand it in a little bit. In the second segment, you can stick around. We cover this unraveling that we're seeing of MAGA and how Trump is losing supporters from multiple parts of the coalition and how there's some bad signs for him.

And I covered a lot of that ground with Losa Farah as well, if you miss that. But we talked a little bit

in the first segment about Epstein. And some of my co-panelists, Susan Glasser and Anand were getting

into sort of argument about what Epstein says about the elites and whether the power elite is

an unsaid where, you know, it was a signal that the power elite, you know, we're all corrupted.

You know, the Epstein case is the best example of this notion that all of the regular folks

out there are really united against the elite. And there's a bipartisan elite that are trying to divide us.

And, you know, I think that is a story that feels good to say because there's a lot of good reason to be upset with our elite.

And I think that it feels good to try to think that maybe the solution to our problems as the whole country can kind of unite with only these like bad guys at the top as the foes.

The reality, when I tried to get into what I have seen from both the Epstein case and the Trump era broadly is not so much that there is

as bipartisan corrupted elite.

Like there is, right?

Like, but they're corrupted in different ways, right?

And I think the manner in which the right is corrupted by Trump is very unique and separate

from the types of stuff

we're seeing with like Bill Clinton and Larry Summers hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein.

What I see when I look at the Bill Clinton and Larry Summers and Bill Gates and Woody

Allen and Noam Chomsky and Steve Bannon and Trump all hanging out with Epstein, what I see

is a broad cultural issue that we have where people in

this country are reticent to draw moral lines anymore, particularly if them or their side stand

of benefit. Let me give you some examples. How did

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