Welcome to Back from the Abyss. I'm Dr. Craig He-Tuck. Today I am talking about one of my favorite topics. I have so many favorite topics.

So this is top 10, and this is the Enigram.

And I'm sitting down with dear friend and colleague Joy Gribble.

Hi, Joy.

Hello.

Really good to have you here.

Joy is a fellow therapist in Fort Collins, Colorado.

She and I teach together with elemental psychedelics.

We share patients. We share ideas. We share love of the

Enegram. So today's episode is not Enegram 101. Apologize for that. So if you don't

understand the Enigram, it might be good. There's a 10 billion podcast on that Enigram. You could

listen to a podcast about it.

This is really Enigram, I'd say 201. So we're going to assume some knowledge of it. And we're

just going to dive right in because when we talk about the Enigram, my favorite thing to think about

is how does the Enigram play out in the therapeutic relationship? When I did my inaugural therapy training workshop last fall, bringing

therapy into med management, I definitely wanted to talk about the enigram. So last fall, Joy came.

It was lovely. And so all the nurse spectrists and one PA got to hear Joy talk about the

enigram. So now all of you get to hear Joy and I talk about this topic of how the enogram plays out in the

therapeutic relationship. Why don't we start, Joy, maybe you could tell us, I know you've been a

fan, devotee, student of the Enigram for a long time. Maybe tell us a little bit about how you found the Eniogram

and what your relationship's been with it over time. Well, first of all, it's one of my top three

topics to talk about. It's your top 10, but I was introduced to the Enneagram while I was studying

...