The Engineering State and the Lawyerly Society: Dan Wang on his new book "Breakneck"

Sinica Podcast

Kaiser Kuo

Culture, China News, Hangzhou, Chinese, International Relations, Chongqing, Beijing, Sichuan, Currentaffairs, China, Politics, Chengdu, Shanghai, Guangzhou, China Economy, News, China Politics, Business, Film, Shenzhen

4.8 • 676 Ratings

🗓️ 21 August 2025

⏱️ 93 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

This week on Sinica, I'm delighted to be joined by Dan Wang, formerly of Gavekal Dragonomics and the Paul Tsai Law Center at Yale University, now with the Hoover Institute's History Lab. Dan's new book is Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future, and it's already one of the year's most talked-about books. In this conversation, we go beyond what's actually in the book to discuss the origins and implications of the Chinese "engineering state" — the world's biggest technocratic polity — and what the United States should and should not learn from China. We discuss how Dan's ideas sit with Abundance by Derek Thompson and Ezra Klein, and much more. Don't miss this episode!

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to the Cynica podcast, a weekly discussion of current affairs in China.
0:13.4	In this program, we'll look at books, ideas, new research, intellectual currents, and cultural trends that can help us better understand what's happening in China's
0:21.4	politics, foreign relations, economics, and society.
0:25.2	Join me each week for in-depth conversations that shed more light and bring less heat to how we think and talk about China.
0:32.9	I'm Kaiser Guo coming to you this week from Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
0:37.3	Cynica is supported this year by the Center for East Asian Studies at the University of
0:40.9	Wisconsin-Madison, a National Resource Center for the Study of East Asia.
0:45.3	The Cynica podcast will remain free, but if you work for an organization that believes in what I'm doing with the show,
0:51.5	please consider lending your support.
0:53.5	You can get me at Cinecapod at gmail.com.
0:57.0	And listeners, please support my work by becoming a paying subscriber at Cynicca Podcast.com.
1:04.5	The semester is starting two big tuition checks to write.
1:08.6	So help a guy educate his kids.
1:10.5	You will enjoy, in addition to the
1:11.9	podcast, the complete transcript of the show, essays from me, as well as writings and podcasts
1:16.7	from some of your very favorite China-focused columnists and commentators. And, of course,
1:21.8	you will have the knowledge that you are helping me to do what I honestly believe is important
1:25.5	work. So do check out the page to see all that's on offer. And please do consider helping me to do what I honestly believe is important work. So do check out the page to see all that's on offer.
1:29.5	And please do consider helping me out.
1:33.0	Dan Wong has been on the Cynica podcast a couple of times before, and I am delighted to
1:38.2	have him back today.
1:39.2	He is one of the sharpest and most original observers of China's technology sector and
	...

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