Suffering and sacrifice are such noble Christian virtues that sometimes we lack discernment on

when we're doing a noble sacrifice, like I'm willing to, you know, jump into a pond to save a child who's drowning, even if it costs me my life. You know, I'm willing to do that because greater love than no one has,

that if you give your life up for a friend or even for a stranger,

I mean, I think that's a noble sacrifice.

But to sacrifice your well-being, your health, your welfare, your finances, your spiritual growth

in order to enable someone else to

continue to sin against you is not a noble sacrifice.

It's a foolish sacrifice.

And yet the church doesn't discern that whether it's in relationships of family members

and toxic marriages or whether it's a toxic leader.

Well, joining me today is popular author and speaker Leslie Vernick, who for 30 years worked as a clinical social worker.

She now runs Leslie Vernick and company, a team of relationship coaches trained to provide Christ-centered support

for women in unhealthy and destructive marriages. And over the past year, I've had the privilege

of getting to know Leslie and spending some time in her home with her husband Howard. And

it's just been a real

joy. And to have you speak at the Restore Conference was really, really an honor. So Leslie, welcome,

and I'm just so glad to spend this time with you. Me too. I can hardly believe it. I've been

listening to you for years. I can hardly believe I'm actually going to be on the show.

For years? I'm honestly, I'm touched. Thank you.

You have written two books on emotionally destructive.

One's more general, just emotionally destructive relationships,

and then one that's more specific on emotionally destructive marriages.

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