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The Ezra Klein Show

The Economic Theory That Explains Why Americans Are So Mad

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 7 June 2024

⏱️ 92 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

There’s something weird happening with the economy. On a personal level, most Americans say they’re doing pretty well right now. And according to the data, that’s true. Wages have gone up faster than inflation. Unemployment is low, the stock market is generally up so far this year, and people are buying more stuff. And yet in surveys, people keep saying the economy is bad. A recent Harris poll for The Guardian found that around half of Americans think the S. & P. 500 is down this year, and that unemployment is at a 50-year high. Fifty-six percent think we’re in a recession. There are many theories about why this gap exists. Maybe political polarization is warping how people see the economy or it’s a failure of President Biden’s messaging, or there’s just something uniquely painful about inflation. And while there’s truth in all of these, it felt like a piece of the story was missing. And for me, that missing piece was an article I read right before the pandemic. An Atlantic story from February 2020 called “The Great Affordability Crisis Breaking America.” It described how some of Americans’ biggest-ticket expenses — housing, health care, higher education and child care — which were already pricey, had been getting steadily pricier for decades. At the time, prices weren’t the big topic in the economy; the focus was more on jobs and wages. So it was easier for this trend to slip notice, like a frog boiling in water, quietly, putting more and more strain on American budgets. But today, after years of high inflation, prices are the biggest topic in the economy. And I think that explains the anger people feel: They’re noticing the price of things all the time, and getting hammered with the reality of how expensive these things have become. The author of that Atlantic piece is Annie Lowrey. She’s an economics reporter, the author of Give People Money, and also my wife. In this conversation, we discuss how the affordability crisis has collided with our post-pandemic inflationary world, the forces that shape our economic perceptions, why people keep spending as if prices aren’t a strain and what this might mean for the presidential election. Mentioned: “It Will Never Be a Good Time to Buy a House” by Annie Lowrey Book Recommendations: Franchise by Marcia Chatelain A Place of Greater Safety by Hilary Mantel Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

Transcript

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0:00.0

From New York Times opinion, this is the Ezra Klein Show. I've been thinking about this episode for a bit so I'm going to spend a couple of

0:27.5

minutes here setting it up. Back in September the economists put out this interesting model that pulled in a bunch of different bits of economic data, so things like the unemployment rate, inflation, gas prices, the S&P 500. And they used all that to

0:46.5

predict how people would feel about the economy. And they show that from 1980 to

0:50.8

2019, all these bits of data, they do predict how people feel about the economy.

0:56.8

And then the pandemic hits and the model completely falls apart. By late 2023, the model's looking at low unemployment, it's looking at falling inflation,

1:10.0

it's looking at a great stock market, and it predicts consumer sentiment is going to be 98 out of 100 98 out of 100 that is Joe Biden gets his face on a coin territory

1:21.5

Here in reality the actual consumer sentiment was 69. That is

1:26.0

Joe Biden might lose re-election territory.

1:37.6

There's been this debate for a year or two now about whether the economy is good or it is bad. And the language of that, the binaryness bothers me.

1:41.1

It's like asking if the 19th century was good or bad. I mean good or bad for whom compared to what?

1:46.7

The economy is like this vast multi-dimensional hyper object. It's a little too big for good or bad. I think we need to be more precise.

1:57.0

This debate is not about whether the economy is good or bad. The debate is about our

2:01.0

expectations.

2:07.4

Given what we've seen before, we would expect, we did expect, people to be happier with the economy than they are right now,

2:10.1

a lot happier.

2:12.4

One way you can try to reconcile that is you could say the public is

2:16.4

misinformed or misled. There's this Guardian Harris poll that came out a few weeks

2:21.6

ago. It found 56% of Americans, 56, think we're in a

2:26.2

recession, 49% think the S&P 500 is down this year, and 49% think that unemployment is at a 50 year high. For the record, we are not in a

2:37.3

recession. The S&B 500 is at a record high and unemployment is at 3.9%, which is extremely low. So factually people are

2:47.2

wrong about the economy, but it gets weirder than that because when you ask

2:51.6

people how they're doing, they say they're doing pretty well.

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