Welcome to Secrets True Crime, the Eric Cates and Gypsy Story.

I am your host Amber Sitten.

What is done in darkness will eventually come to light.

That is the purpose of this podcast.

To shine light on the story of Eric Cates, his beloved dog Gypsy, and the town of Empire, Alabama.

Listener discretion is advised.

The subject matter may involve violence, sexual content, murder, and adult themes.

It is not suitable for younger listeners.

This is episode 4 of a serial podcast and they are designed to be listened to in order.

Many tips and theories of who murdered Eric and Gypsy came to light on the afternoon that

their bodies were found behind the Empire School. Another one of those theories

involved a man named Julius Goodman or Row, as many call him.

Row lives an empire in an area called the camp, just one mile from the old empire school,

and he told me this is where the black community lives in

Empire.

Wayne got a phone call and I honestly don't remember who it was from telling him that

Roe was behind Eric's murder and in fact Wayne was still on the phone at the time that Tanya Malden's phone rang.

She answered it and she walks over to me and says,

Toby, this is Row, and he wants to talk to you.

And so I go out on the porch.

I can hear Wayne talking, and I know that he has, he asked the person that he was talking to,

how do you know Roe did this?

...