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The Ezra Klein Show

The Dobbs Decision Isn’t Just About Abortion. It’s About Power.

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 26 June 2022

⏱️ 74 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

On Friday, a Supreme Court majority voted to overturn Roe v. Wade. Nearly all abortions are already banned in at least nine states, home to 7.2 million women of reproductive age. And it is likely that other bans and restrictions will follow. As the court’s three liberal justices put it in their dissenting opinion, “One result of today’s decision is certain: the curtailment of women’s rights, and of their status as free and equal citizens.” But this decision doesn’t just represent the end of abortion as a constitutional right; what we’re also witnessing, before our eyes, is a legal regime change — one with striking implications for the future of the court and the country. In their majority opinion on the case, Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, the justices cast aside precedent, the court’s historical norms and evidence-based concerns about how this ruling will disrupt people’s lives. Even Chief Justice John Roberts, a fellow conservative, argued in a concurring opinion that the decision went too far, writing, “The court’s opinion is thoughtful and thorough, but those virtues cannot compensate for the fact that its dramatic and consequential ruling is unnecessary to decide the case before us.” The Dobbs ruling, in other words, isn’t just about abortion; it’s a conservative court majority flexing its newly unrestrained power. Dahlia Lithwick is a reporter covering the Supreme Court for Slate, the host of the podcast “Amicus” and someone I turn to whenever I need to understand the court. We discuss what Roe did and what Dobbs changes; why the rights to abortion, contraception and same-sex marriage have a much firmer constitutional basis than conservatives argue; how the majority opinion implicitly threatens those latter two rights, even while claiming to uphold them; why the most revealing opinion in the case is Roberts’s scathing concurrence; why the majority’s absolute disregard for precedent is so terrifying for defenders of the court; the way Justice Samuel Alito’s constitutional originalism freezes past injustices into present law; what the current composition of the court means for the future of liberal governance in America; and more. Mentioned: “Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization” “There’s a Way to Outmaneuver the Supreme Court, and Maine Has Found It” by Aaron Tang Book recommendations: Hope in the Dark by Rebecca Solnit Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl You Can’t Be Neutral on a Moving Train by Howard Zinn We’re hiring a researcher! You can apply here or by visiting nytimes.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/News Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair; mixing and original music by Isaac Jones; additional engineering by Pat McCusker; audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Mr. Climb.

0:05.8

This is the Ezra Kunchel.

0:22.6

On Friday, June 24th, a Supreme Court majority voted to overturn Roe v. Wade.

0:27.1

I am recording this on Saturday evening, and abortion is now banned in at least nine

0:31.6

states, more likely to follow in the coming days.

0:36.3

The way to understand this moment goes beyond any one case.

0:40.6

This is a moment of legal gene change.

0:44.5

This is made clearest in a concurring opinion written by Chief Justice John Roberts.

0:48.9

He charges, it's really an extraordinary document.

0:51.4

He charges the other five Republican appointees with abandoning judicial restraint.

0:56.1

He writes, quote, if it is not necessary to decide more to dispose of a case, then it is

1:02.1

necessary not to decide more.

1:05.2

Perhaps we're not always perfect in following that command, and certainly there are cases

1:08.4

that warrant an exception, but this is not one of them.

1:12.9

There now six Republican appointees on the Supreme Court to three Democratic appointees.

1:16.9

That is true, despite Republicans losing the popular vote in seven of the last eight

1:21.8

presidential elections.

1:24.2

The Supreme Court is our least Democratic branch, but it has become unbelievably undemocratic,

1:30.7

maybe even anti-democratic.

1:33.0

You might imagine that this will lead to a sort of modesty among our Republican majority,

1:38.7

but it has not.

1:40.3

The core of this ruling, if you read it, is not just about abortion.

...

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