Hi Paul. Hi Ardly. How are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you? I'm so good. It's so great to have you on Small Town Dicks. Oh I am so happy to be here. So we want to know how did we persuade you to join us here on Small Town Dicks. Oh it was it was a lot of arm twisting. Not the truth.

Well what has always impressed me about Small Town Dicks is the professionalism. First you have your authenticity. You know Dan and Dave, myself we come out of real crime. We've had real experiences. And so the audience, the listeners are getting from Small Town Dicks. What actually happens out there. Not something that's been glamorized. But also you guys don't exploit the cases. You're empathetic to the victims. And this is what I'm all about. And I know that people who know me from

other projects, they will truly see that when they start listening to Small Town Dicks. That's an incredible endorsement. Dan and Dave tell the fine people about some Patreon. Where Paul Holes also joins us on quite a few nuggety nuggets. For just five bucks a month you'll have access to an assortment of bonus episodes, outtakes, listener questions, special series.

All Town Fam you get everything Dave said and your hard earned money goes to support our incredible staff behind the scenes to give you this podcast that we all love. So please join us at patreon.com slash Small Town Dicks.

A John Doe is found in a shallow creek bed. This male body is laying on his back fully clothed.

But there is something suspicious. He has plastic bags that have been placed over his head and an electrical cord tied around his neck.

Hi there, I'm Yardley. I'm Dan. I'm Dave. And I'm Paul. And this is Small Town Dicks.

Dave and I are identical twins and retired detectives from Small Town USA. And I'm a veteran gold case investigator who helped catch the Golden State Killer using a revolutionary DNA tool.

Between the three of us we've investigated thousands of crimes from petty theft to sexual assault, child abuse to murder. Each case we cover is told by the detective who investigated it, offering a rare personal account of how they saw the crime.

Names, places and certain details have been changed to protect the privacy of victims and their families.

And although we're aware that some of our listeners may be familiar with these cases, we ask you to please join us in continuing to protect the true identities of those involved out of respect for what they've been through.

Thank you.

Today on Small Town Dicks we have the usual suspects. We have Detective Dave.

I knew you were coming to me first. I was prepared. Happy to be here.

Happy to have you. And we have Detective Dan.

Hello, team. Hello, you. And in our fourth hosting chair we have the one and only Paul Holes. Hey, everybody.

Hey, hey. So Small Town Fam, it's a very good day because today we have a case from Mr. Holes.

So before we pushed record, we were talking with you, Paul, about all the ways forensic science has evolved and gained significance during your career. And I think most notably, at least in my book, your work revolutionizing how we use DNA is just one huge example of that.

There's also the increasingly sophisticated ways law enforcement analyzes trace evidence, manages crime scenes, and it got you thinking about a case that you worked on in the late 1990s that could have been considered really an open and shut case.

If all you did was take the suspects confession at face value and didn't dig any deeper. But that's not who you are. Is it Paul Holes?

Not at all.

I bet you are actually the kid who asked for more science homework when the teacher didn't give you any. Is that true? Well, no, that's not quite true.

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