Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Alexander Rogi, and today we're talking about kleptocracy,

how the world's most efficient and prolific thieves steal, launder, hide, and then ultimately

manage to enjoy the money they loot from their countries.

Our guest is a professor of international relations at my old college, which is fun for me,

King's College, Cambridge. It will be obvious in a moment that he's Australian, but his academic career has extended across five countries. We'll discuss his most recent book, The Despot's Guide

to Wealth Management, on the International Campaign Against

Grand Corruption, Jason Sharman. Thanks so much for joining me. Thanks very much for having me.

The book has a great cover. There's a picture of Imelda Marcus Touring the Shoe Museum.

Marcus's shoes must be one of the great icons of kleptocracy. Indeed, it's probably one of the most powerful symbols of conspicuous consumption

when it comes to spending lucid wealth.

There's been plenty of kleptocracy since, but in some ways, it's still one of the most

powerful pictures.

Yeah, there was an anti-corruption event in London hosted by David Cameron, and he was overheard

the night before he was caught on a mic calling Nigeria fantastically corrupt.

The next day at the summit, President Buhari was asked about the comment, and he conceded

that Nigeria is probably fantastically corrupt, that that was a fair description.

And a reporter asked if he planned to demand an apology,

and he said, I'll quote him, what would I do with an apology? I need something tangible.

I am not going to demand any apology from anyone. What I'm demanding is a return of our assets.

You write in your book that, quote, for the first time in history, there is a public consensus

that for a state to host money stolen by an official of another state is more than a You write in your book that, quote, for the first time in history, there is a public consensus

that for a state to host money stolen by an official of another state is morally wrong.

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