The Cult of The Credo: How a Beloved Brand Betrayed Your Trust 7 | 36

Radical Candor: Communication at Work

Radical Candor

Careers, Relationships, Society & Culture, Business

4.7 • 740 Ratings

🗓️ 10 September 2025

⏱️ 66 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

When a company’s values don’t match its actions, the impact can be devastating. Kim and Amy speak with investigative journalist Gardiner Harris about his book, No More Tears: The Dark Secrets of Johnson & Johnson. Harris uncovers how a company once seen as the gold standard of integrity used its famous “Credo” to build emotional trust while covering up harmful practices—from baby powder linked to cancer to its role in the opioid crisis. The conversation goes beyond one company, raising bigger questions about accountability, transparency, and the systems meant to keep us safe. It’s a candid look at how misplaced trust can cause lasting damage—and what it really takes to create a culture where honesty and responsibility come first. Get all of the show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠RadicalCandor.com/podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Episode Links:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Gardiner Harris No More Tears: The Dark Secrets of Johnson & Johnson The Weekly | A Secret Opioid Memo That Could Have Slowed an Epidemic | The New York Times A Devastating New Exposé of Johnson & Johnson Indicts an Entire System | The New Republic The Johnson & Johnson Cancer Drug Scandal That Encapsulates Corruption In Health Care | STAT News J&J Is Back On The Legal Warpath After Striking Out In Baby Powder Bankruptcy | Reuters Antipsychotic Drugs and Nursing Home Residents: What Do the Different Numbers Mean? | Center for Medicare Advocacy Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty The Least of Us: True Tales of America and Hope in the Time of Fentanyl and Meth Physician Payments Sunshine Act (also known as the Open Payments program) Watch Cold Case: The Tylenol Murders | Netflix Connect: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Chapters: (00:00:00) Introduction Kim and Amy introduce Gardiner Harris, investigative journalist and author. (00:01:01) No More Tears Why Gardiner’s book hasn't been widely covered by the media. (00:07:35) Hidden Dangers of Products Overview of Johnson & Johnson’s vast range of dangerous products. (00:15:13) Antipsychotics in Nursing Homes How antipsychotics were pushed to sedate elderly patients. (00:16:58) Opioids & Corporate Responsibility The role Johnson & Johnson played in the opioid epidemic. (00:24:04) The Power of Branding & Emotional Trust The exploitation of emotional branding to avoid accountability. (00:27:28) Incentives, Conflicts, & Complicity How financial incentives corrupted doctors, researchers, and hospitals (00:39:12) Breaking Points & Speaking Up Stories about the individuals affected by Johnson & Johnson. (00:47:27) The Cult of the Credo How J&J weaponized its corporate credo to silence whistleblowers. (00:52:19) How J&J Got Away With It The ways J&J avoided accountability and hid decades of misconduct. (00:57:36) Tylenol, Safety, & the Illusion of Trust The FDA’s inability—or unwillingness—to enforce safety despite evidence. (01:03:29) Hope, Oversight & Individual Action How individual action and awareness can drive systemic change. (01:08:10) Conclusion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Radical Canter podcast. I'm Kim Scott.
0:08.3	I'm Amy Sandler. Today, I cannot tell you how excited we all are to be talking with author and
0:14.3	investigative reporter Gardner Harris about what happens when a culture of silence and betrayal takes root at a company that created
0:24.1	an emotional bond with its customers. He has written a book that we have all become obsessed with.
0:31.8	It's called No More Tears, The Dark Secrets of Johnson and Johnson. A little background, Gardner Harris has written
0:40.1	for outlets, including the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Courier Journal,
0:45.2	and has done an amazing job holding powerful institutions to account, giving voice to folks
0:50.7	who have been ignored. Gardner, we are so excited to, first of all, to welcome you.
0:55.6	Thank you for joining us. Thank you for writing the books. Thank you for having me. I'm so grateful.
1:01.2	We are truly so grateful. And I think the big question that we all want to start with is, why are we not all
1:06.8	talking about this book? Why has it not been reported on? Why, for all of us at Radical
1:13.2	candor and people we've been talking to, why are so many of the stories you're writing about?
1:17.0	Why is it the first time we're hearing about them? Right. Well, again, thanks for having me.
1:21.6	I think one of the problems with the book is that I left daily journalism to do it. And like, I didn't do all of these stories
1:31.3	in the newspaper beforehand. Books are really not normally a place for original stories,
1:38.7	particularly original stories about one of the most iconic companies in the world, right? Johnson and Johnson is a member of the Dow Jones Industrial Average. It is one of only two corporations in the United States with a triple A credit rating, the other one being Microsoft, a company, you know, extremely well. It is the largest healthcare products conglomerate in the world.
2:02.8	It is a household name. And I am telling you stories about Johnson and Johnson that you have not
2:09.2	seen anywhere else. And that is really discombobulating, I think, for the media ecosystem.
2:16.8	You know, I was a longtime employee of the New York Times,
2:21.0	rose to become the White House correspondent of the paper.
2:24.3	I was a long-time member of the Wall Street Journal.
2:27.4	Neither paper has reviewed this book.
	...

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