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Cults, Culture & Coercion with Dr. Steve Hassan

The cult of Frederick Lenz: The guru who glows gold, shapeshifts, and teaches computer programming, with Jim Picariello

Cults, Culture & Coercion with Dr. Steve Hassan

Dr. Steven Hassan

Self-improvement, Society & Culture, Education

4.7843 Ratings

🗓️ 11 December 2025

⏱️ 42 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What does it feel like when an entire room seems to turn to shimmering gold, and you are certain you have just witnessed a miracle, only to later discover it was a hypnotic illusion? On this episode of Cults, Culture & Coercion, I sit down with my longtime friend, former client, and now colleague, filmmaker Jim Picariello. Thirty years ago, Jim was a devoted follower of Zen Master Rama (Frederick Lenz). His family hired me to help him leave the group, and together we unpacked how hypnotic suggestion, phobia indoctrination, and social pressure created those “supernatural” experiences and kept him trapped in a high-control cult.In this conversation, Jim walks us through his recruitment as an anxious college student, the engineered “golden light” experiences that convinced him Rama was enlightened, and the fears that cut him off from friends and family. We also talk about how his parents and I worked together to reach him ethically, how a single powerful hypnotic demonstration helped break the spell, and what it took for him to rebuild his identity and life on the outside.Today, Jim is a multi-award-winning filmmaker turning his story and decades of cult education into a dark romantic comedy feature called The Cult of Us, about two young people in different cults who fall in love and try to “rescue” each other. Along the way, we explore how fiction can teach people to recognize undue influence, authoritarian leaders, and coercive relationships in a way that is funny, moving, and truly life-saving. If you care about freedom of mind, rising authoritarianism, and how people actually wake up from destructive groups, this is an interview you will want to listen to and share. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello, I'm Dr. Stephen Hassan with another episode of my podcast,

0:08.0

cults, culture, and coercion.

0:12.0

And I have a very special treat.

0:16.0

Jim Piccourillo is joining me, someone I've known for over 30 years, and Jim is one of my

0:26.5

protégés, or I don't know how to say it, other than we first met in the context of him being

0:34.1

involved with a cult group some 30 plus years ago, his family hired me.

0:40.3

And he has really dove deep into learning about cults and mind controls, an advocate, and a

0:48.3

spokesperson. And Jim and I have been talking about this project that he came up with years ago,

0:57.6

where he wrote a screenplay and wants to do a movie called The Cult of Us,

1:03.7

and I read the screenplay and love it.

1:08.0

And I said, Jim, why don't you come on and we'll tell people about your story

1:12.7

and tell them about the project. And hopefully they will help support the project by both

1:19.6

promoting the idea of the project and also donating since we are now recording the beginning

1:26.0

of December. And we're coming up with the end of the year,

1:30.0

and people are thinking about who to donate to.

1:33.9

So let me just say a couple more things before you start talking, Jim.

1:40.9

You're a filmmaker.

1:43.3

You've done other projects that we'll talk about, you are an entrepreneur,

1:49.8

you've just helped me enormously get my work out to the bigger public. And just recently,

1:56.9

you kindly consented to playing someone who's a family member talking to a MAGA, someone,

2:05.4

and I commented on how not to do it and how to do it. So if you follow us on social media

2:12.1

and you recognize Jim, you'll be like, oh, that's Jim. So anyway, Jim Pricorillo, welcome.

...

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