Welcome to The Lost Debate, a show for Politically Ecclectics. I'm Ravi Gupta. And today I talk to

Marty McCarrie, who is a surgeon and public policy researcher at John Hopkins University. He's a member of

the National Academy of Science. He writes regularly for the Washington Post, New York Times, Wall Street

Journal. But he also appears frequently also on right-wing media like Megan Kelly Tarra Carlson or Fox News. So he is a bit

of an eclectic himself. He's written three awesome books, unaccountable, the price we pay,

and most recently blind spots when medicine gets it wrong and what it means for our health.

This is one of my favorite conversations that I've had in a while. I think it is going to make you think.

I highly recommend reading the book after this. And as you read it, especially if you're not

super scientifically literate, you're going to have to stop every now and then to kind of gut-check

what it is you're reading. And you might not fully come out the other side, fully proficient in everything

he talks about. But I think his book probably raised more questions for me about sort of long-held

dogma I've had that any book I've read in a while. And if you listen to this interview,

hopefully you'll understand why. So let's jump in.

Well, Dr. Marty McCarrie, welcome to the podcast. Good to see you, Robbie. Thanks for having me.

Well, okay, this is an interview I've had Circle on the calendar for a while. It's just rare to read something that makes you think as much as blind spots has made me think. And so, first of all, I want to applaud you for this book. I think it's an absolutely riveting, incredible read. Thank you. And let's start at the place you probably least like to talk about. But I put my cards on the table as a guy who was probably like a go-along to get along guy when it comes to COVID. I was just like, all right, I just listened to whatever

people tell me during a chunk of that period of time. I didn't have this podcast, so I wasn't

like getting too into the evidence one way or another. It was towards the end of the pandemic that

I started questioning things. And I remember reading testimony that you did to Congress and

thinking to myself, this is kind of a turning point.

Because if I remember correctly, you gave testimony and were lumped in together with

anti-vaxxers, right?

But as I read the testimony, you were pointing to evidence of myocarditis risk to younger

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