The conversion therapy row
The Story
The Times
3.9 • 1.6K Ratings
🗓️ 2 April 2022
⏱️ 39 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week the government said it would ban so-called conversion therapy for gay or bisexual people in England and Wales, but not for transgender people. The policy followed two U-turns in the space of an evening.
It's a sensitive and controversial issue which was the subject of a special investigation on this podcast last August, by the journalist Emily Sargent. So today we're revisiting the first part of Thinking Straight.
This podcast was brought to you thanks to the support of readers of The Times and The Sunday Times. Subscribe today and get one month free at: thetimes.co.uk/storiesofourtimes.
The full Thinking Straight series:
- Part 1: Conversion
- Part 2: Undercover
- Part 3: Surviving
- Part 4: Undercover again
- Part 5: Faith and queerness
- Part 6: Conversion and transitioning
- Part 7: The ban
Getting help
If you, or someone you know, has been affected by the issues raised in this episode, the following organisations can help:
Switchboard provides an information, support and referral service for anyone who needs to consider issues around their sexuality.
Phone: 0300 330 0630 (10am-10pm).
Samaritans is available for anyone struggling to cope and provide a safe place to talk 24 hours a day.
Phone: 116 123
Guests:
- Jayne Ozanne, director and founder, Ozanne Foundation; chair, Ban Conversion Therapy Coalition.
- Dr Qazi Rahman, senior lecturer, King's College London.
- Michael King, Emeritus Professor, University College London.
Host: Emily Sargent, journalist.
Clips: Times Radio, ITV News, Instagram: @xoutloudeuropeofficial, X-OUT-LOUD Europe, Core Issues Trust, BFI, BBC.
This podcast was brought to you thanks to subscribers of The Times and The Sunday Times. To enjoy unlimited digital access to all our journalism subscribe here.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello, it's Manvine, bringing you an extra podcast for the weekend. |
| 0:07.7 | This week, if you are following the news coming out of number 10, you'd be forgiven for |
| 0:12.3 | being a little confused. |
| 0:16.3 | On Thursday, Boris Johnson appeared to perform a record two U-turns in the course of one |
| 0:22.0 | evening, leaving even the most seasoned political watches with Whiplash. |
| 0:28.2 | The issue at stake was the government's stance on conversion therapy, a highly controversial |
| 0:44.2 | practice that attempts to change people's sexual orientation. |
| 0:48.8 | So therapy that tries to persuade gay or bisexual people that they're actually straight, conversion |
| 0:56.1 | therapy can also try to suppress gender identity for people who are trans or gender diverse. |
| 1:03.9 | The Conservative Party had originally pledged a ban it back in 2018, which Canada, Germany |
| 1:11.2 | and a number of other countries have already done. |
| 1:14.4 | Boris Johnson has in the past described conversion therapy as absolutely abhorrent. |
| 1:21.0 | This practice is repulsive and abhorrent and has no place in our country in the 21st |
| 1:28.0 | century, and we're going to stamp it out. |
| 1:31.3 | But then on Thursday, Downing Street said the Prime Minister had changed his mind. |
| 1:37.1 | He wasn't going to push for a ban in case making it illegal had any unintended consequences |
| 1:42.5 | for therapists who were treating gender dysphoria. |
| 1:46.3 | And then just hours later, after backlash from Tory MPs and campaign groups, the government |
| 1:55.0 | U-turned-U-turned-day before April Fool's Day. |
| 1:57.7 | The U-turn on a U-turn on gay conversion therapy. |
| 2:00.5 | Boris Johnson's backtracked on a U-turn made just hours earlier over whether to ban gay |
| 2:05.4 | and bisexual conversion therapy in England and Wales. |
... |
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