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The Ezra Klein Show

The Conflicted Legacy of Mitt Romney

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 27 October 2023

⏱️ 67 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

After factional infighting dominated the G.O.P.’s struggle to elect a House speaker, it feels weirdly quaint to revisit Mitt Romney’s career. He’s served as governor, U.S. senator and presidential nominee for a Republican Party now nearly unrecognizable from what it was when he started out. At the end of his time in public office, Romney has found a new clarity in his identity as the consummate institutionalist in an increasingly anti-constitutionalist party. But as a newly published biography of him shows, that wasn’t always the case. McKay Coppins, a staff writer at The Atlantic, interviewed Romney dozens of times over the past several years and had access to his private journals, emails, and text messages. In this resulting biography “Romney: A Reckoning,” Coppins pushes Romney to wrestle with his own role — even complicity — in what his party has become. In this conversation, guest host Carlos Lozada and Coppins examine Romney’s legacy at a time when it may seem increasingly out of place with the mainstream G.O.P. They dive deep into the key decisions and events in Romney’s life; discuss the looming influence Mitt Romney’s father, George, also a Republican presidential candidate, had over his life; how Romney rationalized appeasing figures on the campaign trail he found disdainful, including Tea Party populists and an early 2010s Donald Trump; how he failed to articulate just why he wanted to be president; the many grudges he has against members of his own party who acquiesced or embraced Trump; how Romney will be remembered by history; and much more. This episode was hosted by Carlos Lozada, a columnist for The New York Times Opinion, and the author of “What Were We Thinking: A Brief Intellectual History of the Trump Era.” Lozada is also a host on “Matter of Opinion,” a weekly podcast from New York Times Opinion. Book Recommendations: The Last Politician by Franklin Foer Number the Stars by Lois Lowry The Plot by Jean Hanff Korelitz Hell of a Book by Jason Mott Less by Andrew Sean Greer Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Emefa Agawu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Sonia Herrero.

Transcript

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0:00.0

From New York Times' opinion, this is the Ezra Client Show.

0:22.9

Hey, it is Ezra.

0:24.1

So we are working on a bunch of other episodes about Ezra Palestine and we also have some great

0:29.0

shows recorded that we are supposed to come out if my book leave had lasted as long

0:33.0

as I had intended for it to last on some other topics and we are going to be releasing

0:36.8

those as events weren't.

0:38.8

So this one felt important to do right now.

0:40.7

It is between my colleague Carlos Susada and McCay Coppins on Mitt Romney.

0:44.7

McCay of course wrote the big new Busy Romney book with his out.

0:48.2

I think it shines some important light on what the Republican Party has become and what

0:52.9

that is meant for people who just a couple of election cycles ago were literally the Republican

0:58.4

Party's leaders watching Romney closely and seeing what has happened to him and then

1:03.4

where he has moved in response.

1:06.1

I think it is a really interesting way to understand actually how far the Republican Party

1:10.7

has shifted even though it is still called the same thing.

1:14.3

So I think there is a lot of insight here and I hope you enjoy it.

1:22.8

It is a weirdly fitting moment to examine the life of Mitt Romney.

1:27.0

Romney has been a governor and a US senator as a member of the Republican Party.

1:30.8

He was even the party's presidential nominee and yet what he may be most remembered for

1:35.5

is the moment when he broke with the GOP.

1:38.4

In February of 2020, Romney voted to convict Donald Trump in his impeachment trial on

1:42.7

the charge of abusing his power by attempting to persuade Ukraine's government to investigate

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