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Autocracy in America

The Computer Scientist

Autocracy in America

The Atlantic

News, Society & Culture, Politics

4.8999 Ratings

🗓️ 5 September 2025

⏱️ 32 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

With all the hype and hysteria around AI, it’s important to remember that AI is still just a tool. As powerful as it is, it is not a promise of dystopia or utopia.  Host Garry Kasparov is joined by cognitive scientist Gary Marcus. They agree that on its own, AI is no more good or evil than any other piece of technology and that humans, not machines, hold the monopoly on evil. They discuss what we all need to do to make sure that these powerful new tools don’t further harm our precarious democratic systems.  Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener.Garry chairs the Renew Democracy Initiative, publisher of The Next Move. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

At L'Oreal Group, over 75% of the ingredients in our formulas will be sourced from nature or recycled materials by 2030.

0:09.0

This is how we create the beauty that moves the world.

0:19.0

In 1985, at the tender age of 22, I played against 32 chess computers at the same time in Hamburg, West Germany.

0:30.6

Believe it or not, I beat all 32 of them. Those were the golden days for me. Computers were weak and my hair was strong.

0:40.6

But just 12 years later, in 1997, I was in New York City fighting for my chest life against

0:46.2

just one machine, a $10 million IBM supercomputer nicknamed Deep Blue. It was actually

0:53.5

a rematch. I like to remind people that I beat

0:56.1

the machine the year before in Philadelphia, and this battle became the most famous human machine

1:01.6

competition in history. Newsweek's cover called it the Brainslaust stand, no pressure. It was my own

1:09.4

John Henry moment, but I lived to tell the tale.

1:14.4

A flurry of books compared the computer's victory to the Wright Brothers' first flight

1:18.3

and the moon landing. Hyperbole, of course, but not out of place at all in the history of our

1:23.9

love-hate relationship with so-called intelligent machines. So, are we repeating that cycle of hype and hysteria?

1:31.3

Of course, artificial intelligence is far more intelligent than all chess machines.

1:36.3

Large language models like chat GPD can perform complex tasks in areas as diverse as law art,

1:42.3

and of course helping our kids cheat on their homework.

1:45.8

But are these machines intelligent? Are they approaching so-called AGI, or artificial general

1:52.0

intelligence that matches or surpasses humans? And what will happen when they do if they do?

1:59.2

The most important thing is to remember that AI is still just a tool.

2:03.9

As powerful and fascinating as it is, it is not a promise of dystopia or utopia.

2:10.7

It is not good or evil, no more than any tech.

2:14.3

It is how we use it for good or bad.

...

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