You're listening to the Cyberwire Network, powered by N2K.

You're listening to the Cyberwire Network, powered by N2K. Hey, everybody, Dave here.

Thanks for joining us here today for this Cyberwire special edition.

Today, my caveat co-host, Ben Yellen, speaks with Paul Mauer and Ed Skodas.

They are authors of The Code of Honor embracing ethics

in cybersecurity. Their new book offers a practical framework for navigating the ethical

challenges facing today's cyber professionals. Here's their conversation.

So these two gentlemen are the co-authors of Code of Honor embracing ethics and cybersecurity.

And I thought we'd start at a very high level and just talk about your motivation for the book,

what message you each were trying to convey and whomever wants to get started.

I'm happy to jump in on that. We saw a gap.

And anyone who's done higher education, particularly doctoral work, you know that a dissertation is about finding a gap and filling it. And if you've done any book writing, it's the same.

And so we think that there was a gap in the ethical teaching of cybersecurity.

And I got a call from the National Security Agency asking for a curriculum. We had a long

conversation and I suggested that we add a book to that project. They agreed with it. And so

on behest of the National Security Agency, we agreed to do that.

I reached out to Ed because I needed a co-author on the book and someone who actually understood

cybersecurity. I'm not a cybersecurity technical person, never have been, never will be.

And very graciously came alongside to give it some cyber jobs.

And for me, my involvement was based on 21 years of teaching cybersecurity incident response

and penetration testing in that 21-year span. I taught over 40,000 students,

and very frequently questions would come up about ethics, about various scenarios that would come up

...