You are listening to the War on the Rocks podcast on strategy, defense, and foreign affairs.

My name is Ryan Evans. I'm the founder of Warren the Rocks. In this episode, we dive into a major

development at the intersection of tech,

trade, and national security. You may have read that the United States has just given the

green light for Nvidia's H20 chips, originally restricted under export controls to be sold to

China. Here to break down why this matters so much for national security are two guests.

Liza Tobin, is managing director at Garno Global, a geopolitical

risk advisory firm. She also served on the first Trump administration's National Security Council

staff and is a CIA veteran and a top China expert. We also have Brad Carson. Brad's a former

member of Congress, a former senior defense official. Until recently, he was the president of Tulsa University,

and he's now the head of Americans for Responsible Innovation. You may also remember Brad

because he hosted a great show for us years ago called Jaja. Enjoy the conversation.

How did you get into focusing on AI and the hardware of AI?

So I got into AI through the Defense Department because when I was undersecretary of the Army,

we oversaw all the legal issues confronting the department when it came to the law of war.

And so the Army lawyers were often in Geneva, usually negotiating about detainee policy,

what constitutes torture or not. But toward the

end of my time there, the Obama administration, AI and autonomous weapons became a big issue,

and the department became a bit seized of it as well. And so I got involved early on there a bit,

and then when I became a professor at the University of Virginia during the Trump administration,

I happened to get invited to this great conference in Puerto Rico, a very famous conference now, where a lot of leading AI people were there and got to know them well. And so I've been following the issue closely really since my time at DOD. And over the last few years, as it's become a big public policy issue even more. Is this in Puerto Rico every year?

No, it's hit or miss. All right. I was going to ask for an invite if it's in Puerto Rico every year. Hook me up. And, Liza, how about you? I got into it through a career focused on China and national security. So 15 years in the government, CIA, U.S. and OPECOM, and then the White House. I started off my career focused on China as a young

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