Hey, Ira Flato here from Science Friday. Each episode we give you surprising facts.

There's a whole phenomenon of moths visiting eyes of mammals. Expert insights. It doesn't

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That's Science Friday, wherever you get your podcasts. I was on vacation over the summer when I spotted robotaxies darting around San Francisco, some with passengers in the back, some completely a little eerily empty, presumably on their way to pick up the next fair.

It all seemed like just so much Silicon Valley experimentation until I got home to Texas

and realized, oh, they're here too.

And if these autonomous ride-hailing vehicles are not yet driving the streets near you,

it's probably only a matter of time.

From KERA in Dallas, this is think.

I'm Chris Boyd.

Uber has announced plans to add 20,000 autonomous vehicles to its fleet around the country.

And Waymo, Tesla, and other competitors are in on this as well.

If it seemed for a long time like self-driving cars might never arrive, it now is

starting to look like they might dominate the roadways far sooner than we expected. And my guest says

the time for cities to make plans for big changes on their streets and in their ways of life is

right now. David Zipper is a senior fellow at the MIT Mobility Initiative,

where he examines the interplay between transportation policy and technology. His article for Vox

is titled, A Self-Driving Car Traffic Jam is Coming for U.S. cities. David, welcome to think.

Thank you for having me. It's nice to be here. Since nobody listening has a memory of life before cars, will you remind us of how the

arrival of the automobile changed city life?

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