Welcome to the podcast Think Vivically, conversations on faith and culture.

I'm your host Sean McDowell, Professor of Christian Apologetics at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University.

Today we're joined by a friend of mine, the author of a really unique new book that covers a topic we have not

covered yet on this podcast.

Jonathan McKee is the president of the source for youth ministry, and to be be honest really my go-to person when I want to

know what's going on in the world of culture in particular as it affect young

people in particular as it affects young people. In particular as it affects young people.

Jonathan McKee is the author of a book The Bullying Breakthrough which we're going to talk about today.

Jonathan, thanks for joining us.

Hey man, thanks for having me, my privilege honestly.

So besides being a youth culture expert, and you pump out books all the time, I don't know how you do it.

Tell me the story of why you wrote the bullying breakthrough in particular.

Yeah, you know, when it comes to this topic of kids who are bullied and kids who are on campus observing that and what to do and how do we respond to that as loving parents and teachers.

You know, it's a topic close to my heart because I was picked on a ton as a kid. I wasn't a stud like you Sean.

Oh God. And I was, and I was, and my son ended up being bullied a bunch. And so, I I mean it's kind of really close to home and it's interesting how in the youth mystery world sometimes we see through the lens in which we know so well, you know, as through our own lens and I was actually at this, I go on this one campus near my house, usually once a week and I attended this school assembly thing that was kind of cool that was talking about, you know, self-esteem and

bullying and how we treat others.

And it was interesting, this is amazing event, they did, but during one exercise, they did

this thing, we're like, okay, okay everybody grab a partner you got a partner

okay now with your partner and the guy who was running it was a studly guy who's kind of this jock whatever

and it was interesting how me through my lens the first thing I thought when he said grab a partner is,

uh oh, this is the part I hated.

And I looked and I started to see these, I saw this one kid, it was this kind of a little

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