Welcome to It Was What It Was What It Was with me, Rob Draper and with Jonathan Wilson.

And this is part two of our episode on The Great Bill Nicholson, a man we consider to be one of the founding fathers, not just of English football, but of modern football star.

And we have a superb guest to discuss this topic with us.

It's Steve Perriman, the record ever appearance maker at Tottenham Hotspur, himself the winner of two UEFA, two League Cups and two F8 Cups.

So this is the second part of our interview, Steve Perriman, about the great Bill Nicholson.

You came into the team and you made your debut.

Bill Nick gave you your debut in September 1969 against Sunderland.

So you're picking up, really, from the double winning team in 1961. They've won the European

Cup winners cup in 1963. They won two FA Cups obviously in 61 and then they retained it in 62

and then they won it again in 1967. In some ways that's the first year of Bill Nixon, isn't it?

You're very much part of the second team he creates, which also wins trophies.

You've kind of explained at the beginning that I think that was a big party signing, that they were the team, weren't they?

But there must have been a pressure to continue that.

Did you feel the sort of weight of this great team of the past?

Because, of course, many of them like Danny Blanchefleur had retired from injury.

Jimmy Greaves had been sold and moved on because Bill Nixon famously judged him past his best.

John White had tragically died at a very young age.

So did you feel that pressure to live up to what these great players are done?

No.

I think you're thinking about your own game all the time, how you're moving forward and developing.

Am I, do I look like I'm going to be taken with the first team, which would happen before

you actually break into the team? The team lost 5-0 at Derby County, first time they'd played

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